6 1/2 month shepherd pup with defense - Page 3

My goal with this pup is to title him in ipo and enjoy the sport with him; at the same time I want a dog that is able to protect for real; I think the second part he is a natural.
Thanks for all your advice; it seems there's people who believe the prey can be surfaced.  This dog is totally green; I first exposed him to the club for almost two months, and all i've done is play with him; when he is completely done teething I will take him to the club and seek help.
 

Sounds like you have a nice young solid nerved pup there. Remember he's a GSD he's not supposed to be a Golden Retriever that LOOKS like a GSD. The term aloof with strangers is in the description of the GSD. Do not make the mistake of listening to people who, for the most part don't know dogs and probably can't get their pet to do anything. That's a good way to ruin your fine youngster. So your pup isn't showing interest in other people outside your family. Not a bad thing at all. You said he's good with kids your family and can be near outsiders and not act scarred or unduly defensive. In a word PERFECT. (IMO) He doesn't want other people touching him and will let them know it with a growl or bark. Again not such a bad thing in my book. I would STOP PUTTING HIM IN THE SITUATION where he has to let others know "DON"T PET ME" What it sounds like to me, with all due respect, is that you are inexperienced with this type of dog. I'm not trying to be offensive, everyone of us was inexperienced with this type of dog until we had one ourselves. So what I would do is fine that helper or training director that is experienced with this type of dog and have them help you bring out the prey drive. Balance him out. I've seen plenty of people come out to club with dogs that they say do not have prey drive and the T/D take the dog out on the field and get that dog to play and go crazy for a ball.... You already know the has a defensive side so he doesn't need that right now particularly at his age. Then when he's old enough and his drives are more evened out a good helper can work him and teach him how to use both drives. Good luck with him he sounds like a nice young pup.

P/S:  Many people today always talk about prey, prey, prey. I guess it's because high prey dogs are easy to train. But in many of the young dogs I've seen, they've been bred for high prey drive and the breed is losing the natural defense, suspicion and fight drive that are supposed to make up the total GSD.

Prey is necessary when you want to compete in IPO.  Prey is also critical for a Police K-9.  A balanced dog is always preferable, I prefer high prey and high defense with solid nerves and a fairly high degree of hardness.  

Prey can be developed and brought out and is often a very good idea with dogs that are too high in defense.  Again we are back to balance, extremes in either one are not desirable.  
JMO
 

thank you Ramgsd,
yes I dont really have experience training this type of dog. I actually like very much all of his attributes; the prey factor for training is what I consider to be missing, but like the general consensus seems to be, it may be possible to bring it out with a lot of work from my part that I am willing to invest the time with a trainer. Or focus the training differently.
This dog is not a dominant dog; he is actually extremely respectful of everyone in my family, and very obedient.  He behaves like a puppy with us..
I am not sure how to explain.. he is not afraid of anything; it is only the indifference factor towards people that turns into aggression if his rules are violated like you mentioned slamd
He is a very social dog since he knows how to live in society if this makes sense; i've gotten him used to all sights and sounds, from city traffic to different farm animals; took him to a quarry where they blasted an there were trucks, dust and noise; he acted completely neutral.
he is extremely aware of his surroundings especially in places with a lot of people but does not put out anxiety or stress; I'm actually comfortable with him in social scenarios..
my yoschi grandson years ago was a different story; I could not trust him fully; I didn't know how he would react at times.. that's why he ended up in a prison as a guard dog; I couldn't be responsible for that dog.
this pup is the same, but he thinks..
I am actually very excited at the prospect of working on his prey and developing it

slam,
to your last post, that's what I wanted in my dog, high prey with high defense with solid nerves; that's the pup I wanted; my pup is missing the high prey...

sounds like your describing my just turned 5 year old female, 3/4 czech/ddr.  I do not participate in sport with her, (just never really available training in my area),  she has never had a high prey drive, but her play drive is over the top.

When she was your pup's age, I was seeing what you are seeing. Having had mostly ddr dogs prior to her, I admit, I was not real prepared for such defense.. The indifferent/aloofness I was totally familiar with.  Let him mature , I've seen with Masi, as she matured,  more appropriate or do I want to say discriminant?  behavior (defense) fell into place, she is definitely a one person (me) dog that can be taken anywhere, new situations and just go with the flow.

Sorry I can't help you with the prey drive, as I said, Masi is over the top play drive, and will do anything for a tug, her prey now, I would say is moderate.  We do alot of tracking (not competative, again , there is nada available in my neck of the woods:(  which she 'lives' for..

Here's her ped http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/551900.html

If your pup is just 7 months old... depending on his lines, it is possible that his prey drive will "kick in gear" as he gets a bit older.  Some lines will really turn on in prey drive at a later age.  Most of my dogs have pretty good prey as younger pups but you see a bit change at around 10-12 months or so, where the prey drive really increases.  They do not "lack" before, but you see a big increase.  Slam already explained everything really good IMO, his posts/points were very good!

Often prey drive comes in with maturity, I have seen quite a few dogs that the drives kicked in between 12 months and 18 months. I think he will be able to be as high a sport dog as you are a handler if you stick with him. This type of dog you actually learn more as a handler than the more prey oriented dog. Five years ago I had two litters, same sire. A good friend of mine wanted a good dual purpose dog and I gave him the best pup from one litter. I kept a real nice pup from the other litter. His mother was old Held v Ritterberg 4X in six generations. My pup's mother was all Czech with good prey. We were training in the same club at the time...at six months my pup had the prey dive and was on sleeve. At 10 months my dog had full grips and launched like a rocket. Meanwhile his dog was going through the motions in training in bitework. He used to look at my dog and say Cliff, I really like his work...I would say to him, Al when your dog gets about 14 months or so you will see same kind of commitment. He would always say, Cliff you the man, I trust you, but I could see he had his doubts...lol.
anyway, my dog at 20 months went to PD dept and is still a PD dog today. As for his dog, the lights came on at about 15 months, at two years old this dog came dog the field like a bolt of lightning, and when doing blind work helpers were always wary because he had the defense. You see I had already had three litters from this female and knew her progeny tended to develop a little later, but they made fine patrol dogs as two of her progeny ended up with NYSP.
My point is you really have to wait until the dog is a little older than 7 months to have a good feel....unless you have been dealing with the bloodlines over some years. Send me a pm of his pedigree I am interested in what's behind him.

Would love to see this pup's pedigree for my own learning, if you're willing to share. This thread has been very informative, thank you to all the participants!

thank you for all the feedback;
thanks Gustav and gsd27
my pup is linebred 4-4 on Aly, troll son.
I have another question; he is not fully developed and not very fast; he is lanky and big boned, not physically mature. does physical maturity go along with some instincts?
all the feedback has been very helpful; in the house, the pup is quiet, knows he could hurt my kids so he acts appropriately; he plays rough with me, he goes for my hands and forearm but sloppy if that makes sense and very playful; if I show him the toy I can develop prey where he chases it but when it comes to put it in his mouth he makes this weird face lilke if he had bitten on something sour if you can see what I mean, but would not tug; he would open his mouth.. he is very discriminative; these are all very good attributes in my book. 
he's all defense right now, but only when at home with strangers or when someone directly tries to step past the point of warning, which I've never seen in a pup this young - he is 6 months and three weeks now; took him to town tuesday again and more of the same; neutrality and indifference but stable.
That same day a visitor he doesn't know came to the house and he displayed this very aggressive behavior from his kennel, with the barking and pouncing on the panel with the deep growl and bark.
thanks again for all the advice and comments - slam, gustav, jenny, wildwolf..