"Golden Middle" Defined... - Page 1

OK We need to clear this up... some people are understanding that the "golden middle" is a substandard dog, NOT TRUE !! to me the golden middle is the PERFECT GSD IN EVERY WAY !!!! Golden middle should not be crazed with drive, it is written in the standards that an overexited dog is a fault. Golden middle should not be a dog with no drive to protect his family or weak nerves that would prevent him from protecting his family, this too is written as a fault. Golden middle should not be a crippled dog or dog bred for such extreme confirmation that it hinders fluent movement, restricted movement is a fault. GOLDEN MIDDLE in MY defenition is THE PERFECT GSD in ALL ASPECTS Perfect Temperament Perfect Size Perfect Structure Perfect Health broken down... Temperament: Confidence, Drive, Solid, Trainable, Affectionate (to his family), Accepting (not affraid of situations/new things), A dog that loves his family and is appropriate in his home, with solid nerves to take on any adversary that might wish harm upon his family, a dog that is highly intelligent and trainable to task, A dog that is accepting and investigative into new/strange things/people is alouf but not suspicious or fearful, A dog that is a ROCK SOLID Family member. Size: Should conform to Standard !!!! Not too big not too small, females should posess a femaninity about them, Males should posess a masculine frame and ora. There really should be no confusion here !!! read your standards for more specifics. Structure: A body type that allows for fluent movement, These dogs when herding needed to move effortlessly, Today in tracking say for SAR need to move effortlessly so that they do not tire and quit looking for someone who is lost. Overangulation does contribute to some loss of fluent movement. Again there should be no confusion here. Read your standards. Perfect Health: These dogs should not be having Hip probelms, eye problems, dentition problems, feet problems, Internal issues, like liver, kidney, heart, Gastro Intestinal, or any other issues. The dog should have perfect health in order to perform as a working partner and family member. Health issue of any kind ='s substandard dog who can not perform basic utility and should be removed from gene pool. Again there should be no confusion here. I don't like the extremes, so I call the PERFECT dog the GOLDEN MIDDLE. Extremes have led us to this split between working and showline dogs, These are GSD's for crying out loud, They should be working partners, family members with beauty and grace as the captain developed them to be, Not crazed nut balls that are not allowed in the home, Not crippled overangulated dogs that can't trot/gait for 10 minutes, Neighther of these are the golden midldle, The golden middle should posess every Temperament characteristic that is desired in the GSD, should posess a Body type that allows for correct fluent movement/unhindered, should posess nerves to protect his family yet accept a visitor without being affraid or suspicious, should be a LOVED family member !!! Is anyone getting this yet ??? I want the perfect dog !! I don't want Extremes !! Golden Middle = Perfect GSD in EVERY way !!!!! at least that is "MY" defenition of the "golden middle"

EchoMeadows, ditto to all that you have said. ONE (1) GSD per the F.C.I. standard as well as any other temperament and drive standard. No extremes. Bob-O

How 'bout we start calling it the golden-nugget or something. I think it's that "middle" part that loses a lot of people.

Echo, Again, each of us would define this differently. Based on your definition of the golden middle, several V and VA rated show line dogs don't even come close to the label as defined by you, based on temperment and working ability. I think we have to agree to disagree, and I think we can do that, and do it well, as to some degree you and I agree on many aspects. I am not trying to start a fight, I enjoy the debate, and who knows someone might convince me my view is wrong. Basically, the standard is not a middle, it is the bench mark, it should be the starting point. Anything above or below cannot be a middle. There will never be a "perfect" gsd, except in each of our own minds. If a dog meets THE standard then that is Golden part. The really isn't a middle. I could accept a Golden Balance.....but not a golden middle.

I have always called it "correct".... as defined by the standard...

I get a kick out of people talking about "perfect" dogs. Nothing is "perfect". Not Michael Jordan, Elvis Presley, Britney Spears, Ursus Batu nor any other BSP or VA dog you care to name. The Golden Middle works for me. The most you can really ask for when perpetuating a breed of animal, dog or whatever, is "consistency". Of course there will be an exceptional dog now and then, and of course there will be crap now and then. If we can get "consistency", then we will have something. Nothing wrong with raising the bar in the consistency, but the vast majority of GSD's bred FOREVER, will be the "middle". No matter how great you think your dog is, or how great I think my dog is, the "middle" is what we have. All have the "middle class", some the "lower middle class" and some have the "upper middle class". That is what I call the "Golden Middle". The middle is the middle. The "Golden Middle" is the upper middle class. Give me a breed of dog that no matter which pup out of a litter, I pick, I can count on it to be a good protector, intelligent (for a dog), healthy, consistent in looks and structure, and loyal, then I will have a breed of dog that has come full circle and is what I want and expect for my money and time. Right now we have a "crap shoot" when picking a puppy from a litter. No matter the pedigree. Sure, we would expect more from Ursus Batu than from Rover Smith, but my point is that it is possible to get a great dog from either and also possible to get a crap dog from either. It's all about the odds. We will be successful when the odds of getting a better than average (Upper Middle Class aka "Golden Middle") dog from either Batu or Smith is about the same. Consistency is what we should be striving for. Not a fantastic dog, one out of every 500 bred. Okay. Now have fun tearing me apart :)

Echo : "GOLDEN MIDDLE in MY defenition is THE PERFECT GSD in ALL ASPECTS" ahhhhh..but everyone isn't you. There for everyone has opinions on "Golden Middle". Some like big, smart and fast. Some like smaller, beauty and brains. I think Golden Middle is everyones opinion to the standard, not the standard. JMO. Melissa.

Do right, the quote below is from Marion Fueller of Zwinger vom Kirschental (posted a couple of years ago on another website). Seems like your view of the "Golden Middle" is similar to theirs: "Like everyone we are also hoping, to breed a "Sieger VA 1" dog or to breed a "Bundessieger" in Schutzhund, but much more important for us is, to breed a whole litter of good dogs with no exaggerations. To use our dogs by the sheep, they have to be healthy with good nerves and strong temperament, and they should not have any anatomic faults, which hinder them working a long day by the sheep. We think, this is a big breeding goal. When a breeder is breeding several litters every year, he always will also breed some bad dogs, that`s not to avoid. But we try to keep the number of this dogs as small as possible. If a breeder tells you, that all his puppies, he breed, are perfect, he is a liar. Another, very important thing is, to listen to the person, who wants to buy a dog. They all want their dog for a little different purpose. A family with little children may do better with a dog, which is a little bit soft. An other person wants a search and rescue dog or a strong male for Schutzhund trials. We have different litters from different bloodlines. From the mother lines we know all dogs for many generations, this are all "Kirschental" dogs. The stud males, we use, are different. On a hard strong female we may prefer a little softer show line male, that the puppies get not too obstinate. Also the guide dog school "Fidelco" uses for this reason sometimes dogs out of show lines. When we have too much show bloodlines in a female, we breed her to a male with pure working lines. We always try to do our best, but the genetic is a very difficult area!"

HERE HERE to Marion Fueller! I don't like the Golden Middle term. Mostly because it brings to my mind "a middle of the road dog". Meaning that it is just ok at everything. Even though it brings that thought to my mind, does not mean that that is how it is ment. I understand the concept and generally agree with it especially concerning extreems. But I can not bring myself to use the term because of my perception. Debby

Maybe the term "well-rounded" would be better to describe the qualities people seek in the "golden middle."