Working is working and show is show - Page 6

"In order to reduce any cognitive dissonance that might occur with knowledge of the truth..." I love that! 4pack The argument that working dogs that look like the very first GSD's are correct would mean that von steph. was happy with those and did not intend to develop the breed any further. As Preston said that is just not so! I see that argument being used all of the time and it just doesn't make any sense!

I'm sure there was room for development but I am also sure VS would not consider the black and red prancers circling a ring, "working dogs" You cannot seriously argue that looks didn't take over here.

Fortunately, because I've seen a lot, or unfortunately, because I'm old, I remember a time in the 60's and 70's that looks hadn't taken over. There were plenty of German dogs, in fact the great majority, that had both great looks and were genuine working dogs. They did not look anything like some of the so called working lines of today. And definitely did not look anything like the very early GSD's. Today they are harder to find, so I guess I would argue that looks have taken over to some extent, but there are still dogs out there that have both confirmation and genuine working ability.

OldNewGuy, I agree with your assertion completely. I have several VHS videous of the old Sieger shows of the early 80's and these dogs in general had correct temperaments. I was at the 82 Siegerhauptzuchtschau and watched the bite work. It was impressive. Also a majority of the dogs would have met the now accepted FCI standard. Almost no raoch back (none in the higher placings), very short backs, big heads and great bone. Some dogs with black and red, but most with black and orange or gold and black and grey. Many sables. There are still many GSDs in W. Germany like this!

Preston, I went to the USAF school in Texas for security/sentry dog handlers. At the time (Vietnam War) they must have had a couple of hundred dogs there. these dogs were rock hard. The vast majority looked like most of the show dogs (with the exception of the red coloring which was more of a tan).

That should have said "The vast majority looked like most of the show dogs of that era (with the exception of the red coloring which was more of a tan they looked somewhat similar to today's not to the early GSD's).

Old New and Preston, I quite agree. Also with diligent study of pedigrees it is possible to trace some of the better working showlines straight back to Racker Itztal and the B litter vom Lierberg. Timo Berrekasten is one such dog with Racker on the fathers motherline. He also has Fanto Hirschel on HIS motherline who was known as an extremely sound dog linebred on Mutz, Quanto and Canto. Those who make the effort to track the bitework at the sieger shows make valuable observations that the rest of us should heed. A substantial change has undoubtedly occurred in our breed in 20 years, but I believe that we still have it. As I have stated in earlier posts there is no justification for incorrect temperament OR structure. Best wishes, Jonah

OldNewGuyMC, yes I had heard that the GSDs at Lackland AFB had very nice confirmation and were hard as nails with correct temperaments during that period.