Working is working and show is show - Page 1

You see this type of comment everywhere. So I have a question for all of you knowledgeable people of this board. Let's say, I'm a person looking for a pup who I will train to his SCHH3 and if all turns out well I want to compete with him in regional or even national trials. Also, when we are not training, I want to enter him in SV type conformation shows and have him be competitive there as well. What would you advise me???????

Do you buy lottery tickets???? Do you expect to win??? or do you realize that it happens, but is a chance in a million???? Since we can not go back in time to the 70's - Pick one or the other -

I have both lines and...yikes..can't believe I am gonna say this...BUT.....they are all GSD's!!! I have showlines that work and a soft working line...so it to me is a matter of physical appearance. I find it very crazy that the show and working people claim to have different dogs...but it is the reality of it.... Although I do agree there are many physical and mental differences, you have to keep in mind it is the same for humans...doesn't make one better than the other, only different.

OK, that's one for "it's impossible". Who else?

The KEY to this question was that the OP wanted to be competitive to EXCEL - to go to National levels - IMO You can DABBLE in both - with higher sucess in one of the venues - but the question was could you EXCEL in both venues with the same dog - the working dogs who V at the Sieger show in Germany are at the BOTTOM of the ranks, the show dogs do not place in top ranks at the BSP...the medium quality dog of either type that you do both with is going to be ---- medium in results!

Ahhh... but there are show dogs that CAN do well in both AND working dogs that CAN do well in both. They are not one in a million. A person just has to know the lines and look around. Just because they CAN does not mean that the owner CARES to do both. Please refer to my comments at: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/56303.html#56730 Rather than me going through writing all of this down again.... Debby

Thank you djc, I missed that post of yours from Sept. I totally agree with your position. I don't mean to rehash tired old arguments but here is a post right next to this one from a new person asking about buying a pup. You immediately see the divisions surface. I think it is a sad state of affairs for our beloved breed that a new person has to be told that the chances of finding a GSD that can do both is about the same as winning the lottery. Kougar, you are right in what you say, but we shouldn't accept the situation. WE have driven this breed to extremes. The GSD used to be known as the Olympic decathlon winner. Maybe couldn't throw the hammer-throw as far as the specialized hammer-thrower (Rottie?), maybe couldn't run quite as fast as the sprinter (greyhound?) but could do it ALL in a way that was far above average and far above what any "specialist" could do. That's the true GSD! We have developed a specialist on the one hand (working) that "flies through the air" and "hits like a freight train". We have developed another specialist that has a beautiful coat, a tireless gait and generally less drive. Hammer-throwers and sprinters. But I want a decathlon champion. Does that mean that he only performs at a "medium level"? Only by OUR definition. WE have determined that the extreme specialties is what is desirable and that the decathlon champ is not what we want in a GSD by the shaping of the rules in both fractured dysfunctional factions of our breed!

Thanks "Guy". Great points! There are just not many of us true believers around. One day one of us will bring some successes (note: not just one in a million) to both venues. They may not WIN both, but they WILL excell in both, if I have my way. Call us dreamers or whatever you will, but at least we are trying to make the breed as it once was. One dog for BOTH work and show. ONe thing I wanted to add to the statement above: "Just because they CAN does not mean that the owner CARES to do both." I would like to finish that statement with: And to take the absence of one or the other from the national venues is NOT a statement that their dogs can not do it. They just do not have the desire to train and trial/show in both. Maybe someday that will change. I hope so!!! Debby

OldNewGuyMC, I am assuming you are refering to the comment I made, "Working is working and show is show." I will admit I made that comment. All I meant by it is that the Gorgeous showlines seem to excel in the shows and the working lines seem to excel in the type of work that their owners pick for them. Before I get jumped on, I'm NOT saying that a dog can't do both, hell, more power to you if your dog can! If I KNEW that I could buy a show/work mixed line puppy that could excel in both, I'd buy that dog in a HEART BEAT. But MY PERSONAL PREFERANCE is a working dog...just as some prefer a Show dog. The GSD is a dog of many purposes, but I think we can all admit it is still slightly segregated...If it weren't we wouldn't have use of the terms, "WORKINGLINE" "SHOWLINE" "AMERICAN" or "GERMAN" the dog would be an all in one. Okay, the point I am making here is that different lines specailize in different things. OPINION WAS ASKED, and I thought I would give it. That was only MY OPINION, it may not be yours, or the next persons, but I believe I stated MORE THAN ONCE in that post that it was ONLY MY OPINION.

Well I don't think its impossible...look at Eagle he is multiple sch3 + a billion other titles and has a V show rating. But I don't think many "working Line" people will put their dogs in the ring-but it can happen-