Working is working and show is show - Page 2

I wouldn't go as far as to classify the American and German all in one group....American lines are so far from the standard. I hear the Am. lines will be called something else soon???? Great comments everyone. I am sure we all strive for the same thing....

Krista, my title for this post is generic. You see the statement all the time, I didn't even know you had made it. Chill. I smiled at this comment though: quote: "The GSD is a dog of many purposes, but I think we can all admit it is still slightly segregated." I think you win the cement-bicycle-award for the biggest understatement of 2006. lol!

Just remember how many show line breeders actually produce competitive show quality. And how many working line breeders produce competitive national sport dog. There is a lot lost in the middle, so it would be quite a challenge to get both.

My Eagle is V in conformation and many-times Schh3 at Regional and National level. However, I would not show him in conformation (and haven't except for breed surveys and conformation rating purposes) except for "fun" - as even though he is V, he is not competitive against the show-line dogs - just how it is. He is beautiful for a working-line dog. Just using him as an example. I have a show-line female I breed, because she can work and has a very strong "working-line-like" temperament. High drives and the whole package. I breed her to show-line dogs that can work. So maybe her puppies could work at the level you want, but maybe they can't. Would still be a gamble. They could show though. Eagle's puppies (just as an example) are as good in structure if not better than he is. They are working lines and should be able to work at high levels and have correct structure. But could they show and be competitive? Maybe not. Still a gamble. I agree, pick what you want to do the most, if you mainly want to work your dog get a working-line, get one from KKl-1 parents if you want to also "dabble" in showing your dog - for fun only. If you would rather show your dog but want a dog that can also be fun in the work, but maybe not be suitable for higher levels of competition, then get a show-line pup from parents that are good in the work. molly

Fred... A lot of us "showline breders" do produce a substaial amount of "show prospects". Question is do they get that chance or do the owners keep them as pets? Same for working dog breeders...probably just as many are capable and would excel- given the chance. Molly... I am a friend of Tammy's and I agree Eagle is an AWESOME specimen!!! And I do agree,,,,why show a working line dog except for his/her koer if not necessary. Unless of course you can in Eagle's case....

OldNewGuyMC - please define competitive. For me its as good chance to win... PERIOD. not "well of my dog tracks good today, or if he doesnt mouth the dumbell the way he usually does. But being able to finish between 1-5. And id say the same for the show ring, if you go to show after show and never finish inthe top, then you arent comptetive. There is a huge difference between competing at the nationals and being competitive. Ive shown at a few national and regional events and not once did i stand a chance in hell of winning. So you can find a dog that will compete in both but you will be hard pressed to find a dog that can WIN in both. And if you did, i highly doubt it would produce dogs that could win in both

Scott, you are accurately describing the way things are. But do they HAVE to be that way? Why is there such a wide acceptance of the way it is? The self evident answer, I guess is, because people by far are happy with the way it is. Most people, it looks like, are happy with GSD's specializing in either show or working. But then, why do you hear so much discontent about the split? Are the ones that are unhappy with the breed splitting off into two almost distinct breeds just a small minority who is being vocal?

i can only answer that by saying.. "i didnt make the rules, i just play the game". For me the game is sch. i want to make the world team some day. And in know fomr past competitors, that a VA show dog is less likely to compete w/ V -SG working dogs in sch. If i chose to play in the show ring, i would never take pur working line dog into the ring. Why because the rules say i can win. So it boils down to what you want to play. I pesonally dont care about conformation or KKL, because it will not help me get to my ultimate goal. now im sure some one will say if the dog isnt built correctly it wont be able to work. But my line of thought is my dog must be built just fine 'cuz he works and doesnt come up lame, vs my dog could work all day if he wanted too.

Old Guy I get it too! So many want both all rolled up in one package but if you start talking about mixing working blood with show, people start throwing things at you...lol kinda funny yet sad. How the hell else do you people suppose we get there?

Scott, that's an honest reply, and I can respect it. But, some of us are at the point where we are thinking more about the state of the breed than about individual accomplishments. Yes, you are absolutely right, a show dog, generally speaking with possibly a few exceptions, will not win the BSP. And a working dog stands as much chance of becoming Sieger in the show ring as I have in being selected an astronaut. But as you say, you don't make the rules, you just play by them. So who's making the rules? That's the ones I have a problem with. Using my earlier analogy of the Olympics. Whoever makes the rules thinks they can make the hammer-throw (working ring) more interesting by increasing the weight being thrown. So, slowly the weight is increased over the years where only giant supermen can throw it (dogs that can't live in the house, are hyperactive, may be handler aggressive,etc etc) . Now, the decathlon athletes can barely pick it up, much less throw it. But they can do everything else a hell of a lot better than the hammer throwers. Who's a better athlete? But now there is a split. Are we happy with that? Or were we better off when the decathlon athletes could do it all because of the way the rules were structured??