The Best Dog Food of All - Page 5

Oh well, if it's not the right tripe I think I will still feed it as organs. It's just another something different. I'm sure they get sick of the same chicken hearts, gibblets, liver. I find beef heart sometimes. Hate hacking it up, but it's cheap enough and the dogs like it. If I see cheap beef, I snatch it up and feed. Mostly they get chicken parts because it's easier to find and cheaper. I can always find pork necks dirt cheap but GARD hads a coniption if I feed those. Thinks the dogs are going to choke to death! I havn't had the cahonas to buy tongue yet. What do you cut that with anyway?

With my little experience I can tell you that raw diet is the safest and the best but should be human grade meat only. Organs are very dangerous

An all raw meat diet (muscle meat only, no organs or bones) for your dog is dangerously unbalanced.

It lacks in calcium, and as a result, can cause rickets in young, growing dogs. It causes older dogs to draw calcium from the bones, and may result in fractures and general debility/paralysis due to osteoporosis.

Reference: http://www.provet.co.uk/petfacts/healthtips/meat.htm

Raw meat, especially organ meat, is often contaminated with bacteria such as E. coli, (produces toxins that can be deadly, some strains are antibiotic resistant) C. jejuni (number one cause of food poisoning) Salmonella (ditto, can cause intestinal bleeding and death in weak or aged animals or humans) AND parasites. These organisms are often harmless to the host animal, BUT can be passed on to other animals and to humans through handling the meat and/or feces of infected animals.

Reference: http://www.secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_meat/testimonies.html

I also know of a breeder who spent $$$ on getting her new puppy healthy, after it arrived from the breeder with a severe Camplyobacter jejuni infection from being fed raw chicken as part of its regular diet.                   

Chewing on bones is a common cause of tooth fractures in dogs. This often leads to the tooth having to be extracted, and can cause a tooth to abscess.

Reference: http://www.secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_meat/testimonies.html

A friend who raises Cardis had to have THREE teeth extracted from one of her dogs, as a result of chewing on bones.

Bone fragments, even from supposedly harmless bones can damage and tear the stomach and bowels and lead to death. Large fragments can cause bowel obstruction and death. Pancreatitis is another common ailment associated with the BARF diet.

Reference:  http://www.secondchanceranch.com/training/raw_meat/index.html

Dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years. I was trained in biology, and spent a great deal of time studying animal bones for anatomy, faunal osteology and archaeology courses I took. Even the dogs the N. American Indians had before the coming of the white man were very different from the wolf. The teeth and jaws were much smaller, therefore less suited to heavy chewing. For thousands of years, we have been breeding dogs selectively for our own purposes. Also, natural selection, though this takes place more slowly than deliberate selection done by man, has played an important role. An all-meat, raw diet is NO LONGER APPROPRIATE for them. Their digestive systems and teeth have evolved to eat human food, and that includes cooked food and grains as well as meat. 

If you can ever get your hands on the skulls of a wolf and a large-breed dog, compare the teeth. It will be an education for you. Then, compare a cat skull with a dog's skull. What do you see? Yup, the teeth of the cat are much more specialized for meat-eating, because they have been used by man mainly for vermin control. This means their digestive systems are much more adapted to eating meat, and they require a much higher quality of protein in their diet than dogs do.

Read. Educate yourself. Don't believe everything you hear. Yes, more studies need to be done by unbiased researchers (NOT the pet food companies, obviously!) The above is just the result of my own personal education as a biologist and nurse, and my personal experience. Think about it: E. coli contamination of the water supply  (from cattle manure)killed 17 people in Ontario a couple of years ago. Do you REALLY want your dog to expose you and your family to that sort of a risk?? The chances of it happening are slim, but THE RISK IS THERE IF YOU FEED RAW MEAT!

I'm glad you pointed out how important it is to feed a balanced RAW diet, not just muscle meats.  People should also feed more than one protein source (not just chicken, for example).

It's my understanding grains & rice were added to dog food as filler, not for any nutritional value,  there is a direct correlation between allergies and grains.   have been unable to find any cases of e-coli where the contamination was traced back to a dogs feces, nor can I  find any documentation on a dog being contaminated with e-coli from eating RAW.  Chewing on cooked or dried out bones may be a common source of tooth fractures, but I haven't been able to find anything that references broken teeth & raw bones (except where the owner let a dog chew on Recreational bones after they had dried out).  I haven't seen anything that indicates a high probability of bowel obstructions or stomach lining tears in dogs fed RAW diet.

I agree, much more independent study needs to be done, and I'm sure as more & more people turn to RAW it will.  Look at  all the dog food companies now turning out RAW products, they don't want to miss out on the gravy train!  I looked at the provet & second hand ranch sites, but couldn't find any references to science, more opinions.

I don't know how one would go about getting a non-human grade source for RAW.  Everyone I know purchases from supermarkets, butchers or if they are like me, from specialty sources for hormone free, antibiotic free, organic meats.

I am happy to say more & more vets are advocating RAW.  My friend, who is a veterinarian oncologist recommends it and feeds RAW to her own pets.  My regular vet is also comfortable with RAW.  He says he has seen no adverse effects from feeding RAW.

My friend who had the Cardi with the fractured teeth fed nothing but large raw knucklebones to her dogs. They were NOT dried out.

I don't have the time to look it up right now, but one of the links I found above did say that E. coli was found in the feces of dogs fed BARF diets, and not in dogs fed kibble. There may not be documented cases of it happening, but the most common source for humans is undercooked hamburger meat. I doubt doctors would even consider dog feces as a possible source.

The botton line is the E. coli is present in the feces, so contamination IS POSSIBLE, even if it hasn't been proven.

Yellow Rose is right on !   All aboutthe dawgs...I get frustarted when people spend money on shows but feed Ol roy.....Whats priority....or ignorant people who only feed good before a show.... Screw the show...feeding good ensures health and vitality.....thats what its about not just for a show result??Come on!!!!  Your the same person who is all perplexed when your dogs gets health problems that many quality feeders dont get!  Think outside the box!!!

Sue, I'm not talking about grains and riced added as filler, but what dogs ate BEFORE commercial dog food became available. There's an excellent article here, that makes the same point I was trying to make above, only phrases it much better:

Another argument for not feeding today's domesticated dog a raw food diet is that we know domesticated dogs have been eating cooked food for over 300,000 years. In the Middle Pleistocene period companion pets (dogs included) were buried along side their masters. Grave sites have been uncovered by archaeologists which have revealed much about the companion pets as well as the early humanoids who were roaming this earth at that time. i.e. the site of Zhoukoudian in North China. Our present day domesticated dogs have been eating cooked foods long enough to cause a change in their digestive and glandular systems and the way that they will react to raw foods.

A final point I will leave with you is: NO human nutritionist is recommending that all humans should eat a diet that only consists of bananas and leaves based on the theory that humans descended from the Chimpanzee even though the DNA profiles of the Chimpanzee/human is a closer match than the DNA profiles of the wolf/dog. And . . . there is not a single dog owner feeding their dogs a diet based on the wolf/dog theory who is also feeding themselves a diet based on the nutrients a wild Chimpanzee eats.

Link: http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/raw.html

We will probably have to agree to disagree on this issue.  Just because we have always done it that way is no reason to continue.  Everything in life evolves & changes.  I am encouraged by how many veterinarians are starting to embrace the RAW diet.  Here is an article from one veterinary hospital:

http://www.wilmingtonanimalhospital.com/rawdiets.html

For those of you who are interested but worried about a balanced diet or aren't ready to take the leap of preparing a RAW diet yourself, I highly recommend you look into the different already prepared RAW diets available.  More and more companies are selling prepared RAW diets.  I started out using BRAVO myself. 

Of course, it's important to use correct handling practices as you would when handling any raw meat for your family.

No human nutritionist would EVER recommend humans eat nothing but prepackaged processed cereal either!  Common sense tells us fresh food is better for us. Those of us who feed RAW feel it's better for our dogs too.  While some people advocate prey model (based on wolves diet), not everyone feeding RAW feels exactly the same.  It's similar to how different people have different opinions as to which kibble is best.

I don't buy into this and personaly think it is either the food companies worrying about a little loss in profits or some ignorant people feeding RAW the wrong way. After finaly bitting the bullet and puting my dog on RAW, I cannot believe the changes in his health. Now our other puppy is on RAW and we can see a noticeable change in her coat and overall health. No more picky eatting or leftover food in the bowl.

Dogs that inhaled kibble now take their time and chew, rip, breath, enjoy while they consume. My shipment of Olewo carrots and Alaskan Salmon oil just arrived today. (Thanks Louise P) I have always fed salmon oil but did need a refill. I did buy oatmeal to add to my RAW when I first started but have used it VERY sparingly. I have no objections about using rice, especially on dogs with an upset stomach. Other than that I don't see what other grains are needed.

90% of the time a meal will include organ meat, every week or 2 I fast the dogs a day, and every week or 2 I substitue their normal meal for pure fish, along with yogurt and or cottage cheese.

I don't recall who said they presently feed Ol Roy? From what I can read here I was the one who brought up Ol roy. Now let's do the math. 13 year old dog. Fed Ol Roy first 7 years. Equals last time Ol Roy was fed how many years ago? Go ahead, don't be shy, you can say it.  So as much as it might make you feel justified at being overbearing I have to point out that no one is feeding Ol Roy while spending money on showing. I personally do not show.  Obviously neither do you. So why do you attack people that do show at every opportunity? Even people that just want to learn to stack their dog? And this little fact seems to have eluded you as well-this was a request for information on dog food. Not whether people should show. And, frankly, I'm still trying to find where anyone said they feed crap most of the time and then quality before a show? You have some serious receptive communication issues going on here, buddy.

"the same person who is all perplexed when your dogs gets health problems that many quality feeders dont get!"  Not perplexed at all. Once again must be your unfounded assumptions popping up. EPI is common in GSD's. More prevalent in W. German showlines. Perhaps you see this as obscure information the average owner doesn't have access to? Is that why you think it would have been perplexing? Or is it a transferrance sort of thing? You would have been perplexed by it so you figure some one else would be too?

Also for the record, I haven't fed anything (much to my husband's ire at seeing $35-40 dollar bags) but super premium dog food for years. Well before I got my present dogs. You might want to peruse my actual post to find that I feed EVO. I assumed most people knew what EVO is. Maybe you could understand the subject matter before firing off with that hair trigger?

Yoga might be good. You seem very stressed out.