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by Deal With It on 09 March 2012 - 14:03
Could someone help me out with explaining the difference between a fear biter and an aggressive biter?
Things like: what to look for in each; difference in bark tones; body language, etc.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Things like: what to look for in each; difference in bark tones; body language, etc.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
by Princess on 09 March 2012 - 16:03
what age and sex, as that can help with advise on what your dealing with. I would advise until your sure what you are dealing with, that leash and control so your dog doesnt get into trouble. You will get alot of good advise on here.
by Sunsilver on 09 March 2012 - 16:03
In my experience, fear biters are just that: fearful. They will cower and shrink away as you approach. If you continue to approach, and try to touch them, that's when they will bite.
When I was a kid my uncle had a fear biter that would be fine face to face, then nail you from behind when you turned your back.
When I was a kid my uncle had a fear biter that would be fine face to face, then nail you from behind when you turned your back.
by VonIsengard on 09 March 2012 - 19:03
Tone and even posture can vary depending on the dog. Really, it's all the eyes.
by Deal With It on 10 March 2012 - 00:03
Princess, It's not my dog that I'm talking about. I have a well mannered boy. Thanks for the info, though.
Sunsilver, I know what you mean. I have a friend that has a German Wire Haired Pointer that would cower from you when you faced him and nail you in the "behind" as soon as you turned your back. Ouch!
VonIsengard, I agree it's in the eyes. I just have to figure out a way to explain that concept to others.
I'm looking for info to pass along to a local group of UPS drivers that are having trouble with being chased by dogs. They've asked me to give them some ideas on how to recognize the signs for potentially dangerous dogs and how to avoid getting bitten.
Thanks to everyone and hope I receive continued information!
Sunsilver, I know what you mean. I have a friend that has a German Wire Haired Pointer that would cower from you when you faced him and nail you in the "behind" as soon as you turned your back. Ouch!
VonIsengard, I agree it's in the eyes. I just have to figure out a way to explain that concept to others.
I'm looking for info to pass along to a local group of UPS drivers that are having trouble with being chased by dogs. They've asked me to give them some ideas on how to recognize the signs for potentially dangerous dogs and how to avoid getting bitten.
Thanks to everyone and hope I receive continued information!
by Onyxgirl on 10 March 2012 - 01:03
Like your friends GWHP, typically, a fear biter will tag you in the butt when you turn your back on them. They may act confident and bark approaching, yet back off in a submissive state, then when you think it's all good, they'll nail you in the wallet.
MOST all dogs will bite out of fear, and it is aggression regardless of where it's based.
The UPS drivers should approach with body language that isn't threatening, sideways, no eye contact, act like they are in charge though.
They should look at Brenda Aloffs book http://www.amazon.com/Canine-Body-Language-Photographic-Interpreting/dp/1929242352 or Turid Rugaas' DVD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7BWxC6iVs which shows how dogs communicate/give calming signals.
Hats and sunglasses are also 'threatening' to many fear aggressive dogs. My dogs want to eat our UPS drivers because they run up, with cap, sunglasses/bang down a box and run away.
MOST all dogs will bite out of fear, and it is aggression regardless of where it's based.
The UPS drivers should approach with body language that isn't threatening, sideways, no eye contact, act like they are in charge though.
They should look at Brenda Aloffs book http://www.amazon.com/Canine-Body-Language-Photographic-Interpreting/dp/1929242352 or Turid Rugaas' DVD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7BWxC6iVs which shows how dogs communicate/give calming signals.
Hats and sunglasses are also 'threatening' to many fear aggressive dogs. My dogs want to eat our UPS drivers because they run up, with cap, sunglasses/bang down a box and run away.
by Rass on 10 March 2012 - 12:03
When a dog is fearful he will (often) make him/her self look "bigger" and the ruff along the shoulders will stand on end.
I have a dog that will see another dog on the other side of her fenced yard and she will charge the fence barking and looking like H**l on wheels.. but her ruff is up and the instant the strange dog runs at the fence in response (even silently and with no aggression in the stance or approach) she tucks tail and runs back. When she reaches a distance where she is comfortable she will turn and stand and bark.. ruff up looking mean.. usually about 20 feet.
To the untrained eye she looks aggressive.. but she is really reacting out of fear.
Another indication of fear is a dog that will try to nip and run back.. goes in for the bite, and the bite is at the rear of the person and is neither deep nor full. Sometimes it is a frontal attack.. but it is always followed by the dog backing away after releasing. Of course, you don't want to instigate this.
Most biting by dogs not trained to bite (and even some that aree trained to bite) is out of some level of fear.
A dog trained to bite out of fear is often unstable. A dog that bites out fear due to genetics is also unstable.
I have a dog that will see another dog on the other side of her fenced yard and she will charge the fence barking and looking like H**l on wheels.. but her ruff is up and the instant the strange dog runs at the fence in response (even silently and with no aggression in the stance or approach) she tucks tail and runs back. When she reaches a distance where she is comfortable she will turn and stand and bark.. ruff up looking mean.. usually about 20 feet.
To the untrained eye she looks aggressive.. but she is really reacting out of fear.
Another indication of fear is a dog that will try to nip and run back.. goes in for the bite, and the bite is at the rear of the person and is neither deep nor full. Sometimes it is a frontal attack.. but it is always followed by the dog backing away after releasing. Of course, you don't want to instigate this.
Most biting by dogs not trained to bite (and even some that aree trained to bite) is out of some level of fear.
A dog trained to bite out of fear is often unstable. A dog that bites out fear due to genetics is also unstable.
by Rass on 10 March 2012 - 12:03
Issuing the UPS drivers a standard cattle prod with an 18 inch wand could also prove effective. Dog acting nasty that close either fear or out right aggression usually will NOT continue after getting a taste of the prod.
IOW's if the dog is going to bite, let 'em know they really got hold of something....
by djc on 11 March 2012 - 20:03
This all JUST my opinion and experience.
It's all in the body language. Someone who is experienced can see the difference in the eyes but not the general public.
Fear biters do not always cower unless someone pushes them. their ears are pinned, ruff up, head lowered, tail low and maybe in between the legs, teeth bared and barking and lunging. Yes, it is true that their favorite form of attack is from behind and lower body. If a fence is involved then they can look very confidant and serious to the untrained eye.
A confidant dog showing aggression, will have ears forward, staring you down looking right into your eyes and lunging forward and up into your face, tail may be held high or straight out and may be wagging, head held high and a square proud, somewhat eager stance.
One has to understand also that dogs are "PRO-active" when they are afraid. In other words, a fearful dog wants to chase away what it perceives as danger, BEFORE it has a chance to hurt them. MANY socially aggressive dogs are actually fear motivated and it takes an expert to be able to see the difference. A more confidant dog is more "RE-active" when something makes it known that it's a threat is when it reacts and not before. Some really confidant dogs see right through a "helper", know it's a game and it ends up being harder to teach them the game in conventional ways.
Debby
It's all in the body language. Someone who is experienced can see the difference in the eyes but not the general public.
Fear biters do not always cower unless someone pushes them. their ears are pinned, ruff up, head lowered, tail low and maybe in between the legs, teeth bared and barking and lunging. Yes, it is true that their favorite form of attack is from behind and lower body. If a fence is involved then they can look very confidant and serious to the untrained eye.
A confidant dog showing aggression, will have ears forward, staring you down looking right into your eyes and lunging forward and up into your face, tail may be held high or straight out and may be wagging, head held high and a square proud, somewhat eager stance.
One has to understand also that dogs are "PRO-active" when they are afraid. In other words, a fearful dog wants to chase away what it perceives as danger, BEFORE it has a chance to hurt them. MANY socially aggressive dogs are actually fear motivated and it takes an expert to be able to see the difference. A more confidant dog is more "RE-active" when something makes it known that it's a threat is when it reacts and not before. Some really confidant dogs see right through a "helper", know it's a game and it ends up being harder to teach them the game in conventional ways.
Debby
by beetree on 11 March 2012 - 22:03
Debby, I think you nailed it. My brindle rescue was that fence running fear biter. Woe to the unsuspecting jogger. I got the police report to prove it.
My SL is actually the "reactive" dog. I got stories for that but, he is like you describe. Not so as a pup, very friendly and outgoing, but as a mature dog, he does a good naturally appropriate aggression, so different than the other one. Let's face it, if you love the GSD, you must love what the threat of teeth represent, what it does for us.
My SL is actually the "reactive" dog. I got stories for that but, he is like you describe. Not so as a pup, very friendly and outgoing, but as a mature dog, he does a good naturally appropriate aggression, so different than the other one. Let's face it, if you love the GSD, you must love what the threat of teeth represent, what it does for us.
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