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by Ibrahim on 12 December 2011 - 21:12
Jenni78, thanks for the link, knowing that you are against usual vaccination practice makes me more interested to dig more into it as I think you are a very responsible non-commercial picky breeder. Thanks also Kerschberger for the links, maybe best thing at this stage is to minimize vaccinations and give them in single shots. I checked with the vet and he advised that shots we have here are usually 5 in one, he said a funny thing at the end " those who don't want to give vaccinations want to save money, vaccinations minimized early deaths in modern dogs".
Ibrahim
Ibrahim
by Northern Maiden on 12 December 2011 - 22:12
Jenni78, Kerschberger, et al.
How often do you vaccinate against rabies? I am curious because even though our family are minimalists when it comes to vaccines, (we only do rabies after their puppy series) at least one of the family dogs suffered terribly from vaccinosis after receving only one rabies vaccine. He had a terrible rash (very similar to the top photo in the link in the original post) and he also had a distressing temperament change. He is now doing much better 4 months later, but our family is wondering how often we should subject him to such misery. What would you do? Should we go ahead and have him get his rabies booster in August 2012, then one every three years like the vet wants us to?
How often do you vaccinate against rabies? I am curious because even though our family are minimalists when it comes to vaccines, (we only do rabies after their puppy series) at least one of the family dogs suffered terribly from vaccinosis after receving only one rabies vaccine. He had a terrible rash (very similar to the top photo in the link in the original post) and he also had a distressing temperament change. He is now doing much better 4 months later, but our family is wondering how often we should subject him to such misery. What would you do? Should we go ahead and have him get his rabies booster in August 2012, then one every three years like the vet wants us to?
by Abby Normal on 12 December 2011 - 23:12
My vet uses the 3 yr protocol.
However, as mine are now all over 7, last year I decided that they should have built up sufficient immunity and I would no longer vaccinate. My vet agreed with my decision, and so as of last year, mine are no longer vaccinated. I have never routinely vaccinated for Kennel Cough. I have always been somewhat concerned about over vaccination. Mine are also all raw fed.
Ibrahim, I wonder if your vet was referring to Distemper. Distemper accounted for an awful lot of deaths in puppies and young dogs until vaccinations became available. Certainly distemper is virtually unheard of now, and I think that is the main 'success story' of modern day vaccinations, as it was the biggest killer initially. But, the question is what is adequate for protection and what is excess, and when does making money overshadow that question and skew the answer.
However, as mine are now all over 7, last year I decided that they should have built up sufficient immunity and I would no longer vaccinate. My vet agreed with my decision, and so as of last year, mine are no longer vaccinated. I have never routinely vaccinated for Kennel Cough. I have always been somewhat concerned about over vaccination. Mine are also all raw fed.
Ibrahim, I wonder if your vet was referring to Distemper. Distemper accounted for an awful lot of deaths in puppies and young dogs until vaccinations became available. Certainly distemper is virtually unheard of now, and I think that is the main 'success story' of modern day vaccinations, as it was the biggest killer initially. But, the question is what is adequate for protection and what is excess, and when does making money overshadow that question and skew the answer.
by Jenni78 on 13 December 2011 - 00:12
Saving money? ROFL I admit I'm a vet's worst nightmare. It must pain them that I have so many healthy dogs that never need to see them for anything more than OFA certification. ;-) Their teeth never need cleaning, they never have pesky little ailments and allergies, and they don't get spayed or neutered. Saving money is a funny spin to put on it. It costs far, far more to raise dogs as I do than if I fed them plain old dog food and vaccinated them yearly.
As an example of how much extra natural rearing can cost, I spend $150 PER DOG PER RABIES SHOT as an "intact fee" for the county. So, if I decide to comply with rabies shots, then I pay $250 per shot ($50 for the shot, $50 for the visit, and $150 for the "intact fee"). You also get penalized if you don't do rabies along with a combo shot. There are discounts for doing all at once.
If you buy single shots, you pay far more for them, if you can even find a vet to administer them (I would do my own).
Unvaccinated dogs can't go anywhere, can't be boarded, etc. Titers are far more expensive than shots. Other than the fact that they never get sick, natural rearing is quite expensive. It means in-house pet sitters, expensive bloodwork when required, not to mention the costs of proper nutrition that goes hand in hand with not vaccinating. You can't feed a dog Ol Roy or Iams and not vaccinate and expect that they will have the same immunity as a dog fed biologically-appropriate foods, not given harsh internal wormers as a matter of routine/convenience, and given every opportunity to attain and maintain optimal health.
Northern Maiden, I would never vaccinate that particular dog again. Any decent vet will give you an exemption for him. I would go vet to vet until you find one with a brain and who remembers the phrase "do no harm." Check and see if your county will accept a titer in lieu of a vaccine. Even if they don't, I wouldn't ever vaccinate a dog who had a previous reaction to it. That goes against all medical logic and common sense. I would go to the media before allowing a vet to force me to vaccinate that dog again. No one in good conscience can tell you that he needs to be vaccinated again. Check into the Rabies Challenge Fund for details that you could use to argue that.
I keep my "likely to bite" dogs' rabies up-to-date if county protocol calls for decapitating and testing for rabies. If it merely calls for quarantine/observation then I might not. I am extremely careful, however, and my dogs have few opportunities to bite inappropriately. I have a couple dogs who have never had a shot in their lives. Certainly, refusing a rabies shot isn't worth risking the life of a dog who may bite someone and get decapitated for testing. So, check thoroughly into the laws before deciding on this one. Thuja is a homeopathic that can help if given before and after a vaccine. I also use something called Karbo Combo (and I may start distributing this, so if anyone is interested, email or PM me- I'm trying to gauge interest to see if it's worth it) for immunity on ALL my animals (horses down to cats) and in theory, it should also help detox and minimize inflammatory reactions.
Ignorance is truly bliss. I wish I had never had occasion to learn and research all this stuff. The more I research, the more staunchly opposed to traditional vaccination and feeding protocols and the crazier I sound to most people, LOL. Oh well. My dogs are healthy.
Read this...by a vet:
http://petresource.com/Articles%20of%20Interest/texas_vet.htm
As an example of how much extra natural rearing can cost, I spend $150 PER DOG PER RABIES SHOT as an "intact fee" for the county. So, if I decide to comply with rabies shots, then I pay $250 per shot ($50 for the shot, $50 for the visit, and $150 for the "intact fee"). You also get penalized if you don't do rabies along with a combo shot. There are discounts for doing all at once.
If you buy single shots, you pay far more for them, if you can even find a vet to administer them (I would do my own).
Unvaccinated dogs can't go anywhere, can't be boarded, etc. Titers are far more expensive than shots. Other than the fact that they never get sick, natural rearing is quite expensive. It means in-house pet sitters, expensive bloodwork when required, not to mention the costs of proper nutrition that goes hand in hand with not vaccinating. You can't feed a dog Ol Roy or Iams and not vaccinate and expect that they will have the same immunity as a dog fed biologically-appropriate foods, not given harsh internal wormers as a matter of routine/convenience, and given every opportunity to attain and maintain optimal health.
Northern Maiden, I would never vaccinate that particular dog again. Any decent vet will give you an exemption for him. I would go vet to vet until you find one with a brain and who remembers the phrase "do no harm." Check and see if your county will accept a titer in lieu of a vaccine. Even if they don't, I wouldn't ever vaccinate a dog who had a previous reaction to it. That goes against all medical logic and common sense. I would go to the media before allowing a vet to force me to vaccinate that dog again. No one in good conscience can tell you that he needs to be vaccinated again. Check into the Rabies Challenge Fund for details that you could use to argue that.
I keep my "likely to bite" dogs' rabies up-to-date if county protocol calls for decapitating and testing for rabies. If it merely calls for quarantine/observation then I might not. I am extremely careful, however, and my dogs have few opportunities to bite inappropriately. I have a couple dogs who have never had a shot in their lives. Certainly, refusing a rabies shot isn't worth risking the life of a dog who may bite someone and get decapitated for testing. So, check thoroughly into the laws before deciding on this one. Thuja is a homeopathic that can help if given before and after a vaccine. I also use something called Karbo Combo (and I may start distributing this, so if anyone is interested, email or PM me- I'm trying to gauge interest to see if it's worth it) for immunity on ALL my animals (horses down to cats) and in theory, it should also help detox and minimize inflammatory reactions.
Ignorance is truly bliss. I wish I had never had occasion to learn and research all this stuff. The more I research, the more staunchly opposed to traditional vaccination and feeding protocols and the crazier I sound to most people, LOL. Oh well. My dogs are healthy.
Read this...by a vet:
http://petresource.com/Articles%20of%20Interest/texas_vet.htm
by Northern Maiden on 13 December 2011 - 01:12
Jenni78, thanks for responding!
Our vet is always pained by the fact that we don't alter, have the dogs' teeth cleaned (we do it ourselves), etc. Boarding isn't an issue; our dogs go everywhere with us. Fortunately, the lady at the city office is totally cool about not vaccinating, as she lost a cat a few years ago from vaccinosis. Before his vaccine, I would say Shadow was not likely to bite, but sadly he has become much more aggressive since his vaccine. He is only a Miniature Schnauzer, so he is easy to control, but...
We will have a lot to consider over the next year. Thanks for your advice.
BTW, I am new to PDB (as you probably know) and I can't seem to figure out how to PM people, any tips would be appreciated.
Our vet is always pained by the fact that we don't alter, have the dogs' teeth cleaned (we do it ourselves), etc. Boarding isn't an issue; our dogs go everywhere with us. Fortunately, the lady at the city office is totally cool about not vaccinating, as she lost a cat a few years ago from vaccinosis. Before his vaccine, I would say Shadow was not likely to bite, but sadly he has become much more aggressive since his vaccine. He is only a Miniature Schnauzer, so he is easy to control, but...
We will have a lot to consider over the next year. Thanks for your advice.
BTW, I am new to PDB (as you probably know) and I can't seem to figure out how to PM people, any tips would be appreciated.
by Jenni78 on 13 December 2011 - 01:12
Go to the top of the page where you see the 4 tabs; PM inbox is the second from the left. Click on it to receive them (it will say (1 new) if you have a new one) and to send one, you can click on the person's username and an option to send them a PM should show up. Or sometimes a user has an email listed in their profile that you can try.
Aggression has been a noteworthy side effect of rabies vaccines. I have a horse with EPM right now and have been doing a lot of neurological research which is why I decided to put all my animals, dogs included, on the Karbo Combo since it is thought/supposed to help the body in getting rid of everything "foreign" whether parasite, protozoa, toxin, bacteria, virus, etc.... I have to say, I don't know if it's placebo effect or what, but I have seen HUGE differences in my older animals. My 11+yr old mutt started acting so wild in the house that I bought him a crate! Stool quality improved as well. In my 8yr. old, I noted more subtle differences. Vitamin E is also good for neurological inflammation.
Aggression has been a noteworthy side effect of rabies vaccines. I have a horse with EPM right now and have been doing a lot of neurological research which is why I decided to put all my animals, dogs included, on the Karbo Combo since it is thought/supposed to help the body in getting rid of everything "foreign" whether parasite, protozoa, toxin, bacteria, virus, etc.... I have to say, I don't know if it's placebo effect or what, but I have seen HUGE differences in my older animals. My 11+yr old mutt started acting so wild in the house that I bought him a crate! Stool quality improved as well. In my 8yr. old, I noted more subtle differences. Vitamin E is also good for neurological inflammation.
by Northern Maiden on 13 December 2011 - 04:12
We used essential oils of frankincense and lavender to clear Shadow's rash up; the oils also seem to help him with his aggression problem, we can always see a difference in his temperament if we forget to do his treatment. Thanks again for you help.
by Blitzen on 13 December 2011 - 13:12
Great posts, Jenni!!!
by GSDguy08 on 13 December 2011 - 20:12
I only vaccinate for rabies, and at that, every few years. The only time my dogs have ever gotten sick, was 2 weeks after they got a vaccination for kennel cough.......Guess what they got? Kennel cough....Go figure. That was a couple of years ago, and I no longer intend to do that again. My dogs don't get sick anymore either. At the vet they got irritated when they asked when I was bringing my dogs in for their yearly vaccines....I said I'm not. I can't recall how many vaccinated dogs I've seen with health problems....go figure.
by Northern Maiden on 14 December 2011 - 00:12
Every vet I have talked to insists that the dogs need a one year rabies vaccine, then the following year a three year booster. Is this correct? One place I read on the internet says the vaccines are the same. Does anybody know if this information is accurate?
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