Degenerative Myelopathy - Page 1

How many of you would breed a at risk GSD  I know I wouldn't.
But some breeder seems to think that it is ok as long as you breed to a clear.
Want are your thoughts on it.

Based on the results so far there's seems to be enough clear dogs in the GSD breed to not have to breed dogs at risk. But I've said it before, in other breeds you don't have that luxury. In the Pembroke Welsh corgi only 10% are clear, and over 50% are at risk. Eliminate all the at risk dogs you decimate the breed.

As long as the mate is DM clear; then yes...you will get some carriers, but none at risk....you can continue your line on your DNA tested clear pups, or even carriers (only bred to DM clear).  If the general characteristics of the dog are great, in structure, nature, trainability, health...the dog is titled, rated, H/E normal...but DM at risk...the dog may be the last of your line or everything your hope to achieve in your program...that dog bred to a DM clear dog will not produce at risk puppies, thus it is not unethical...as long as any puppies placed on full reg and/or in breeding/show homes should contractually test for DM and DM carrier puppies should be bred to only DM clear dogs. 

IMO you can do this but only if you are going to make sure NONE of the carriers (which would be all of them so they don't need individual testing) that are produced in this litter that you aren't personally keeping only go to non-breeding homes, on limited registration and under a spay/neuter contract, no exceptions for others that say they will test also and blah, blah.  Then the carrier(s) that you keptback for your program can only be bred to another clear and this litter you individually test each one (or at least the ones you think about keeping or selling as breeding dogs) and make sure any carriers or non-tested ones leave as the generation before did (limited reg. and spay/neuter).  Statistically this means you will be selling about 75% of your offspring from these 2 generations as PETS only, but you can rid this line of DM.  You wouldn't be making any AT RISK offspring, so I think it's ethical enough but a big commitment AND a personal one as you can't guarantee that someone that gets a carrier from you will continue with your work and only allow the clear offspring to breed.

Of course I would use an at risk with a normal if the dog were important to my breeding program and the only dog that could provide what I wanted to produce. Some of the most frequently used GSL's are turning out to be at risk including a few Va's.

Using an at risk adds one more generation if the goal is to produce all normals. No need to DNA the litter, all will be  carriers. Retain the best, place the pet quality dogs on non breeding contracts. Isn't that what most do with all pets anyway? The carrier/s can then be bred to a normal/s, those pups DNA'd as young as 4 weeks. There will be about a 50/50 mix of normals to carriers. The intent of the test is to prevent producing more at risks.

I don't see a lot of GSD's from well known kennels listed on the OFA site as being tested for DM. Most of the at risks that are listed do not have any pedigree information and most are identified using call names, not registered names.  Maybe owners are using one of the other labs for the test, one that doesn't have an internet data base. I do know that there are a few who are claiming their dogs have been tested and they have not been, so always ask to see a copy of that cert if the dog isn'ton the OFA database.

It's going to be hard enough to find normals and carriers to use that will fit into a breeding program. It's not prudent to reject at risks at this point in time and it may never be unless more pressure is put on breeders to DNA test their dogs prior to breeding them. I don't know how the Germans are  handling this.

I agree with Sachsenwolf 100%.

I've started ADDING the DM results on the pedigreedatabase of all my dogs behind their names so that people can readily learn and see how it works.    Now, with all dogs I mean the Sires and Dams and the offspring I kept/keep and some of the pups of owners who were gutsy enough to test on my recommendation.  

I tested the older dogs which were still alive and some still are, and those that I know for sure had DM and died of it.   I hope that for the future of our great breed all breeders will start doing this on their websites and the PDB so that we get a good idea how our fight is going.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=128215  V19 Stella Trompetersprung (YaskoxOduscha)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=30364    VA Dian vom Baronenwald   (Hobby x Thea)

are two such dogs important to know the results of as they came from extreme high ranking parents thus a lot of questions can be answered by those looking.   Now of VA Oduscha I know she had DM, though no actual proof, the reaction of her owner was clear.  OF Hobby I'm not so sure.  He died at age 12.5 in Sweden, and his caregiver was not telling what was wrong.  So its guess work. 

For these two great dogs which graced my life Stella and Dian I vowed that I would be the biggest pain in  anyone's rear with pushing this. 

So Thank you for your part in spreading the word, its been my babie since the start of the test in 2008, and an uphill battle in getting breeders (especially the big ones) involved. 

The best source for testing right now is http://animalgenetics.us  in Tallahassee FL, with $45 per test and super fast 48 hour turnaround time, in addition OFA recognizes their result for entry in the OFA database.

I have a graph on this page that will explain in  one glance what combinations
produce what results.   http://kerschberger.com/HealthDM.htm

Thank You All !!!

• If both parents are clear (N/N) then all of the puppies will be clear
• If one parent is a carrier (N/A) and one is clear (N/N) then roughly 50% of the puppies will be clear and 50% will be carriers
• If both parents are carriers (N/A) then roughly 25% will be clear (N/N), 50% will be carriers (N/A), and 25% will be affected (A/A)
• If one parent is clear (N/N) and one parent is affected (A/A) then all puppies will be carriers (N/A)
• If one parent is a carrier (N/A) and one is affected (A/A) then roughly 50% of the puppies will be carriers (N/A) and 50% will be affected (A/A)
•  If both parents are affected (A/A) then all puppies will be affected (A/A)

Kudos to all of you that do the test & make public your results! As we educate the puppy buying public about DM & other health concerns they will eventually vote with their wallets, & that will wind up persuading those that lag behind. It's an uphill battle, & you guys are leading the charge!
Good for you! jackie harris

Ditto Olga Ashley.