Is our breed developing Kyphosis? - Page 1

Note: This thread is not attented to create a Working line vs show line or any dog bashings. It is meant to be for educational purposes only.

Taken off of http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002220/

Kyphosis is a curving of the spine that causes a bowing or rounding of the back, which leads to a hunchback or slouching posture. 



Now for the dogs..

A dog born in the 1940's
VA1 Rolf vom Osnabrücker Land

If you notice the back is rather flat looking. Nothing abnormal is present.

2010 BSZS VA 1 sieger born 2005
VA Ober von Bad-Boll

Although I seen worst... This dogs withers is straight but onces it reaches to the back it begins to to have a bow shape. The loin then makes a sharp turn down to the tail.

I love to see an Spinal Xray from one of these current VA dogs to a dog with straight backs and compair them both.

Since we already have problem with Hips/elbows in our breed are we also going to be seeing spinal problems like Kyphosis?

"Our" breed isn't, maybe this belongs on the German Shepherd Board.

To answer your question, Brittany, No. The GSD breed is not developing kyphosis.  You cannot make an accurate comparison between the structure of the human spinal column and that of a quadraped.

Hexe, I know we can't compair it with humans spieces, but it is simular.

I am pointing out that their's a skeletonal of the spine that is changing not for the better but for possible worst. I would love to hear the opinion from a canine orthopedic surgeon regarding to this.

Look at the wolf for instance.


Notice that the spine is flat? Same as Rolf.

Brittany, Welcome back! Where have you been?

not fair to compare a wolf to any breed dog in structure .. for 1. -  a wolf is a wolf .. 2.-  a canine is a canine .. would you compare a terrier to a wolf , a sight hound to a wolf ? the bones . ligaments , muscles and the intra relation are completely different between a wolf and a canine.. each breed has in it's STANDARD the exact structural requirement/description ... exactly expressed !! .. in the GSD it is precise.. no room for interpretation !! written in black and white !!  FORM dictates FUNCTION as well as ,   Function dictates FORM ...... speed requires one form , drafting anothercompletely different form , trotting /herding another and so forth ... that is the gist of discussion [ or IMO should be] .:  does the GSD of today fit the standard in regards to it's intended FUNCTION/FORM ??  what do you folks think ??

Got to strongly disagree with you Alphapup!  The wolf is a canine, and being the direct ancestor of the domestic dog, has the same anatomy.  We may have distorted the actual proportions and angles of the bones by selective breeding, but the basic structure remains the same.

The standards are far from exact in their dictation of form.  No standard could be so precise as to define a structure so narrow as to fit a particular type as seen in the showring.  If that were the case then we wouldn't have such diverse forms as the Alsatian and the German type in the UK rings, and both complying with the same standard, as far as their respective supporters are concerned.

The form of the wolf is dictated by his role in the ecosystem.  He needs a structure suited to endurance trotting, speed and manouverability.  Not that different from the founder dogs of the GSD breed, so no surprise that these dogs were very similar to wolf structure.  The modern day GSD is very different as he has mostly developed a form suited to little more than looking impressive in the showring.

Abby Normal, I wasn't aware that it's becoming a routine to have spinal x rays on these dogs prior to breeding. I wonder why? I guess I've been out of the dog world long enough to miss this information. I am curious about the spinal study, and to hear the results. I do hope that the study came from an unbiased source. To my understanding some well known kennels in Germany are conformation judges, and is responsible for rewarding these dogs with high V and VA's thus politics can interrupt the study from going public.

The next time I go to my dog's orthopedic specialist, who is also a surgeon, I will have to ask him about it and see what he has to say about it. I think it's safe to say that he is closest as one can get to getting an unbiased answer since he doesn't breed nor show dogs.

Yes this can be turned into a heated argument because theirs a lot of pointing the finger among the working/show folks. Unfortunately both are equally responsible for this as I've seen some working dogs with bad roach backs.

Mystere, Hello there and thank you for the WB :) I took some time off from the dog world for a while to focus on my RL. I'm slowly getting back into the game :) I hope things are going well for you :)

ALPHAPUP, Why isn't it fair to compare a wolf to a German shepherd? I did it simply because they're the closest ancestors, and have almost an identical standards. Sure why not compare a wolf to a terrier. Look at this:


A Carin terrier. Notice the back construction? It isn't a mountain shaped as the german shepherds that we have today running around the ring.

And sure each breed has their standards and structural requirements but that doesn't necessary mean that it's for the good. Look at the Bull terrier for instance. http://www.hinksoldtymebullterriers.webs.com/

Or how about the poor pug who has to suffer from respiratory problems (or often times the eye pops out of it's socket) because the standards requires that the nose be as flat as it can.

In fact checkout this short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIaM3hYFszc 

Mother nature knows best. Instead of creating our own stanards, lets see what mother nature thinks about it first. The wolves should be a perfect example of good standards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c662xukupgI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0ihN3_LVvY&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IivZjY-N8Rs&feature=related 
 

http://www.youtube.com/user/apoArmani#p/u/13/YKnZRkOHtFc 


http://www.youtube.com/user/apoArmani#p/u/4/KNSTucYSI2U 


http://www.youtube.com/user/apoArmani#p/u/5/WCw_-BiZg_Q


http://www.youtube.com/user/apoArmani#p/u/11/3_i6GWD7tDk



 As long as you build on Natures 'gifts' and not destroy them...the benefits are there!!! Just have to work HARD AT IT!!