HELP!!! BREED STANDARDS IN INDIA - Page 1

Hi everyone.I have a friend that imported a dog from India that was bred out of German parents.This dog was brought to South Africa about two years ago.The dog was judged by three SV judges and was " V " rated.The GSD Federation in SA are refusing to register this dog.The initial reasons given was that the INDIANS do not have a proper breed structure in place in respect of the german shepherds. The dog has been registered with the Kennel Union of SA and on mking enquiries with the SV , my friend was informed that because the Kennel Club of India is affiliated to the FCI , the breed books are mutual and the dog can be registered but here in South Africa ,he is not.The GSD Fed of SA is refusing to give in writing the reasons for not registering this dog.His parents DNA was sent to SA to be proven and now the results have been so called lost.The SV indicated that they would regeister the dog provided the DNA of the parents are submitted.The father has been proven but his mother has now sadly passed on and I cannot get her DNA. Can any one advise me about a way forward to have him registered so that he can be entered in shows and have his full potential shown as some breeders want to use him but cannot as he is KUSA registered. Many thanks

Hi K9man, let us know the name of the sire and dam of the dog you have and we may be able to help you with the DNA n' stuff! As far as breed standards in India are concerned, we have some nice GSD's here and some super quality imports! Our sieger this year was Sammo vom Team Fiemereck! and we have bred some nice dogs as well who have won over top german imports numerous times. The GSD Federation in SA must try and find the lost DNA and register the dogs on behalf of his parents SV registeration numbers. Don't blame the country for just one dog! We have exported dogs to various parts of the world and they've never had a problem being registered with any kennel club so far!

What is the proper breed structure that the SOUTH AFRICANS follow that the INDIANS don't? If the dog has been V rated by three SV judges then where does the question of not adhereing to breed standards / structure arise in India. Did your friend keep a copy of the DNA report that he sent to GSD Fed of SA or was he so stupid to send in the originals without keeping a copy for himself? Way forward to have him registered? You said it. Send the DNA report to them. Your friend's problem here has nothing to do with the breed standard in India. You guys need to get your own lawn cleaned before you comment on the others. I'm surprised you did not get nasty replies based on the title for this thread. Have you ever heard of the word 'apartheid'. It was coined for the SOUTH AFRICANS. BTW is the dog registered on this database? Can we have a look? Anyway, just go away!

KUSA operates under FCI rules, so does the SV and so does the KCI. That means that all these clubs should honour registrations issued by any of the other clubs. KUSA has already recognized the dogs registration according to your description, so the the individual breed club (GSD club) should not be able to refuse the dogs registry. Your friend needs to contact KUSA to inquire if the breed club can proceed as they currently are. Why can you not breed with a dog that already has recognized papers by your National Parent Club? Contact the FCI in Belgium if you have to as well. Often in such instances getting a lawyer helps. If the DNA *results* have been lost, then that does not mean that the original DNA material was lost. That also means that the company that did the testing usually has a record on file and should be able to provide a copy. Requesting that from the SA GSD club would be another step you could take, but on a hunch I would say that the next reply is that the actual DNA material was "lost" and there are no records. If that happens at least such inconsistencies will give you some more ammunition to fire back with. Anu, GSDrcool, I see no reason for either of you to feel personally attacked. K9man did not say anything negative about KCI bred GSDs, simply what his GSD club used as a excuse. Anu, if you can help in any way I am sure it will be much appreciated. GSDrcool, you are absolutely out of line here. This is an unfortunate registration matter, not a matter pertaining to the quality of Indian bred GSDs at all. In fact K9man is very positive about the quality of the dog since it has already been V rated and has people waiting to use him as stud, so he has been well received. That is a compliment in my books. If you want to get mad at someone write to the SA GSD Club about that remark. Comments about apartheid are rather interesting when they come from someone whose country has a caste system. Are Harijan part or apart of your society? Or I should rather say Dalit. Enough of that. Collect your stones and go back into your glashouse. This sort of talk has no place on this site. If anyone in India can provide the missing DNA sample, this mans troubles would disappear. Think about the simple fact that that cannot be provided as a small hint that maybe GSD breeding regulations in India really are not quite up to snuff *yet* (I know the GSD folks in India are trying hard and these things do not happen overnight) and Indian breeders need to do just a bit more to avoid this in the future. When problems crop up you should take note and see if breeding regulations need to be looked at again, not blow up. If anyone in India ever wanted to register their own well bred dog with the SV they could well be facing the same problem if they cannot provide DNA of either parents. And this issue may also scare away very good potential foreign buyers. Just a few things to consider. Simple as that. Paperwars, nothing else. But all fixable.

I have heard of this episode thro a mutual friend who sent the dog to South Africa. The dog's father and mother have pink pedigrees from the German SV and the father is DNA stamped by them. The mother's DNA should be traceble thro the SV too. So sucks to the GSDFSA. They obviously do not want to register the dog since he is a threat to the folks who want to control matters in the GSD scene in SA. The paerents (I have been told) were xrayed for hips at one of India's premium Veterinary College//Hospital and no abnormality was found. The dog in question has super hips xrayed in SA. His DNA is proven and so what else but pure politics is keeping him down and under???? The Krayenbergs are shit scared of him!!!!!!!! I am writing to my friend to get the missing DNA samples and so watch out things may settle soon. Best of luck K(man!

Hello! The dog in question is Vinmin's Pedro. This dog won VP1 at the 2001 Indian Sieger Show under Herr Rheinhardt Meyer, SG1 Youth Sieger at the Speciality at Bangalore under Herr Richard Brauch and SG1 Young Sieger Indian Sieger Show 2002 under Herr Franz Peter Knaull. Apart from this he is an Indian Champion and a Best in Show Bred in India under a senior Judge from Australia. Before Pedro was sent to South Africa the requirements from the GSDFSA were checked up and every document asked for was sent to them. The blood samples of Pedro's sire and dam were drawn after verification of their tettoo numbers vs their pink SV pedigrees by none other than a senior Kennel Club of India Judge and an International Judge too Dr. Mathew C. John and the samples were sent to the DNA testing authority in SA. The reports were sent directly by them to the GSDFSA.The hips of the parents and Pedro were xrayed at the Madras Veterinary College and eports signed by the Dean, the Prof. of Orthopeadics and Prof. of Radiology cleared the animals of any abnormality. Pedro's hips were done again in SA and they are A+ Normal. Over the last 2 years the staff at the Federation Office have been avoiding the issue of registering the animal with one excuse or the other. Finally when the SV replied that this animal could be registered since all factors were correct the DNA certificates of the sire and dam suddenly go "missing". The sire is none other then a dog V rated in Indian by 6 eminent SV Judges and Indian Champion Quarz vom Murrtal.His DNA is now stamped on his pink papers by the SV but sadly Farinaja Kahler Heide had to be euthanised due to cancer of the mammary glands and her DNA cannot be done again.I sincerely hope that the missing DNA will be found soon at the office of the GSDFSA where total disorganisation seems to prevail as far as this animal goes!!!!! Why are the Federation authorities against registering a dog which so sound in all aspects?? Why are certaim people trying to control the GSD scene is SA? If this dog is put in the show ring he will run at the top position for sure and this is probably the reason why.The GSDFSA is purposely delaying the matter of registration so that as the years go by he will get older and his stud value will go down and so will his career in the show ring. I request as many people on this forum to support his cause with regards to the registration and expose any more fraudulant practices of the GSDFSA. best of luck K9Man

This dog is among the finest B.I dogs till date and was very well appreciated by a number of SV judges! He has beaten numerous german imports claiming a top place always! people can see him on this site! He's a good dog! He was exported to SA just in the interest of making a name for our country abroad. So many people here wanted to buy him! He was so much in Demand! He'll never be forgotten by us! Let's hope for the best and i hope the GSDFSA just puts in a little extra effort to look for the DNA!

"the samples were sent to the DNA testing authority in SA" - that organization would have copies available of the work they had done and needs to be contacted. Surprised that that has not been done yet. The vet who mailed out the sample should have the appropriate contact info. K9man, sounds like you have lots of people willing to help you. Maybe you should hook up privately and see what you can figure out together. Time to step on people's toes, the dog is not getting younger (I can speak from experience where I did not step hard enough). Get a lawyer if you need to and contact the FCI because they are governing all the clubs involved.