Average Price? - Page 1

What is the average price for a 2-3yr. old showline female that is V rated, SchH titled, KKL1? Just curious for future reference. Thanks. Mysti

There is no average price. The price is set by the owner/breeder and can include in the price consideration all kinds of things, including bloodlines, health status, whether the dog is a good mother (*if already bred), what it cost to title and show etc., as well as the country of origin, kennel name etc. To get such a dog from really good bloodlines who is not being dumped by someone, you can be sure you will pay at least $5000 US and more likely, much more up to $12,000 or more. Really good dogs who are titled and meet tough standards are never cheap unless one knows someone who is doing you a favor for some reason. This is one reason why sometimes it is better to buy a younger dog and do all the work yourself. Then, if she turns out well, you really have something.

I would pay 3500 Euro, but certainly not more than 5000 Euro(and she would have to be something special) for what you described. Stephen

an average v rated female is starting at $4,000 euros and the price goes up from there based on the dogs conformation, show history and the kennel that that dog is from. The kenne the dog is from can dramatically affect the price.

We charge 2000 Euros for SchH1 including KKL (and BH, AD, show rating of course, also food and board). Then you need a dog to title. That should give you an idea of approximate realistic starting cost of a SchH1/KKL dog. Also keep in mind that a 2-3 year old is in its prime. If a breeder/owner was to sell such a young female he is loosing out on potential first litters, so most females are for sale at 3-4 years, after a litter or two. Or they cost more. The younger the dog, the more it has achieved, the more popular the pedigree or as already stated above the kennel, the more popular the type and colour, the higher the price. If someone is looking for a young titled dog we usually recommend finding a nice untitled dog that has been a-stamped, has no disqualifying faults, maybe some SG show ratings in Youth Class, that has been tested if it can do the work, a dog that is at least 15 months old and that you like, and then have it titled for you. That will usually be the cheapest option.

"What is the average price for a 2-3yr. old showline female that is V rated, SchH titled, KKL1" And Stephen, realize that V rated also means V1 (BSZS) as well, and that SchH titled could be SchH3, not just SchH1. depending on titles, V ratings, lineage, etc.....you can pay anywhere from 1800 euros (barely made the SchH1, Kkl, "a" noch zugelassen hips, unproven as a brood bitch, average (not well known) lines) to as much as you'd like to spend. ;) Average is 3000-5000 euros for an AVERAGE bitch, and typically not from a highly known "name brand" kennel (like those of SV judges). I've seen dogs go for as high as 60k euros. ;) It really depends on the dog and the circumstances. Good luck! :)

I agree with Hodie's comment about "To get such a dog from really good bloodlines who is not being dumped by someone, you can be sure you will pay at least $5000 US and more likely, much more up to $12,000 or more". The key and most important concept Hodie mentions here is the isue of whether ior not the dog is "being dumped" due to some trait which makes it undesireable for showing or breeding. For example, a dog may have dirty elbows, weird medical problems such as mild EPI, dead tail, bad coming and going, mild epilepsy, bleeding traits, mild mega esophagus or mega-colon, deficient bone or pigment, faulty head, weird proportions, faulty temperament, tendency to bloat or have torsion, steep croup, faulty front, weak pasterns and/or poor ligamentation, restricted movement, too much roach, etc. or may produce too many offspring with such traits, or the blood line could have become viewed as deficient or tainted. If the dog is a clear of all these problems, in my opinion, you will have to pay at least 25,000 US dollars for a V-rated female and $5-10,000 US more for a male with outstanding male type. Since most exports to the US are being "dumped" for varying reasons ranging from only slightly important to vital, there are no good deals on these top dogs due to the world market place and high demand for ScH 2 or 3, KKl V-rated dogs with A-normal hips and elbows. And unfortunately one can pay these high prices for faulty dogs being dumped if they are not informed buyers and extremely experienced (It's always buyer beware>"caveat emptor"). A better approach may be to buy an outstanding young dog of just two years who has attained an SG rating and at least Sch 2 with super clean joints. Top dogs who are worthy require big prices to be paid even when the deal is equitable and on the "up and up".

Ah Preston, as always, excellent and right on comments. Clearly, based on your comments on this subject alone, you know what you are talking about. Far too many people buy dogs and then, after the fact, wonder why they are not getting the dog they thought they were getting. I see it happen over and over and over. It is exactly as you say. It is the rare circumstances and relationships that allow one to get a dog who really has promise or who really is not being "dumped" but people are short sighted and can not see that. I am lucky because I know people I really trust and have been able to buy some outstanding dogs. But they were bought young and still cost me a lot. Now it is up to me to give them the opportunities to be what they can be and that, in itself, is always a challenge considering all the time that requires. I agree with your "better approach", but so many of the dogs I see imported have "cheap" titles, meaning they were quickly done and the dog does not work well at all. This is, in part, why so many do such poor work at the Sieger Shows. There is no substitute for proper training, even when the dog is outstanding from a conformation point of view.

Yes Hodie, but just the fact that a dog has earned a title does not mean that it is finished with its training. If it is not maintained, what was learned is easily lost. I keep reading commends about people buying titled dogs and then taking them out and the dog does not perform. Few people bother to check when the title was actually done or when the dog was actually worked last. A 4 year old male most likely was titled to SchH3 by or close to its second birthday and will not be at that training level any longer a year or two later if the training has not been maintained. Unless the dog is being shown at Sieger Show level or trialed regularly usually training is not maintained. Same as we do not sit down and do High School Algebra just for the heck of it if we do not need it in our daily lives. It is not enough to do a little, or even a lot of bite work and some obedience 2 weeks before a Sieger Show and not much else all year round. Some people think that is enough though and it shows. Preston, if a dog had many of the faults you stated above, few owners would bother to put a title on such a dog. What a dog produces one nevers knows until after, and by the time you see it in the offspring, the dog is usually not a young dog any more. At least not 2 or 3. I do agree as I already stated above - if someone wants a young titled dog IMO it is still the more efficient option to pick a good youngster. But instead of buying the youngster with a title already, because any title means price goes up, have it titled since those are fixed costs (or at least should be, get a firm quote and ask for possible hidden cost like food, board, transport, entry fees, grooming, etc). There are more options available when getting a young dog, its easy to test a dogs abilities. Quality is easily checked by making sure the dog has been shown in the Youth Class. Then the owners just need to maintain what has been done in training after they get their finished dog. Not everyone needs a super top notch show stopper. A dog that is overall a good specimen will do for many breeders and those can be had for less than 25k, even 10k...

D.H.; in my opinion, over half of all V-rated dogs under W. German judges display easily recognizable and serious faults, some of which I will list here: faulty proportions, often way too long at the back and loin, short necked; faulty front or rear angulations and/or pushed forward front; lack of adequate bone mass in the long bones; serious movement problems such as rump rollup at the loin due to steep croup and or roach back, easily discernable under loose lead or off lead); wide or pinched coming at you, running close behind; high tail set; short steep croup; lack of proper sex type, faulty head confirmation. I believe that the most common faults displayed among the top V rated dogs is the roach back with short steep croup causing the dog to have rump rollup with a hitch at the rear needed to compensate for the imbalance between the front and rear. Why so many of the top W. German judges are blind to this roach back/rump rollup problem is beyond me. When this problem started appearing under the great Dr. Rummel, he instituted a complate ban, thus removing these dogs from the shows. A small amount of great kennels in W. Germany do not promote these dogs, such as Batu Kennels. Many dogs also have rear hocks which are too long which deters from drive in the rear and stamina. I have seen top V-rated dogs that were lame, hitched in the rear due to bad hips, loose elbows, wide coming at you, roach backed, too long, poor sex type and with faulty temperaments. It is always buyer beware. And many GSD sport enthusiasts, show or working types, simply don't know and understand the GSD standard, that is, they do not really know what correct structure, movement and temperament is.Sad but true, in my opinion. Let's face reality, if you want to acquire a top dog with super clean joints and without this problems it is going to cost you a very substantial amount, that is, if you even know what correct is.