Hip-rating - Page 1

Hey ya'll, My boy just turned two, and i'd like to get him rated. My question is, can any vet do the X-ray or do I have to goto a specific vet on some approved list? Im hoping to perhaps breed him, as he's an amazing example of a GSD (IMHO). Is there anything else I should look into in order to make him a better, or more selected producer in terms of registrations/documentations? His breeder is currently looking for a bitch to match him with, is there any direction I might point him in? Also, If any of you that are more knowlagable in the field of blood lines would perhaps look at his bloodlines and give me an idea of how well his ancestors have produced. This is him: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/423266.html Sorry for the lack of face on the picture. By the time I noticed he had turned at the last minute, it was too dark to take a new picture. He's about 97lbs now, and is a perfect example of the origionally intended temperment for a GSD (EXCELLENT drive, very strong and agile, even tempered and highly intelligent). If anyone would like a face picture please just drop me an email jaredgtir @ hotmail.com. Thanks in advance. J

BTW, he stands approximately 68.5 cm at his shoulders.

Jared, You need to get an application packet from OFA for the Vet to fill out to do the X rays. You can get one for both hips and elbows then this must be submitted to the OFA.

Are you in the US??? Most vets are familiar with the OFA procedure and will be able to handle it. To educate yourself, go to www.offa.org and learn what the criteria is and how things need to be done. I would also suggest doing his elbows .. a lot of breeders don't, because they are certain they have no problems in that area and the truth is there are lots of elbow problems out there and most go unnoticed. Does this dog have any working titles? do you plan to title him in anything? I'm not trying to be harsh or rude, please believe that, but most people only want to breed to dogs with working titles and breed survey ratings... since that is the gauge we measure them by... Good luck with those xrays!

Yes, im in the US... I've just been browsing the OFA website - very informitive. No, he doesnt have any working titles and unfortunatly I just dont have the time to get any. He has a solid working background and his male produce will more than likely goto Law Enforcement agencies rather than people who like to show and gain titles. (his breeder breeds for LE agencies). Thanks for the pointers :-) Any ideas on how his blood line has traditionally produced?

positioning is very important for hip x-rays. Make sure the vet you choose has experience with hip xrays and will re-take as many times as needed to get a straight shot. See this article about the importance of positioning http://www.leerburg.com/hipart.htm. A stud dog without titles will not be sought after in the GSD community. Even a Stud bred to produce working dogs should really be "proven" himself. Generally through working titles, police dog certs. or be an active police dog. On this board you will generally recieve critisizm on breeding an untitled dog, so don't be surprised if you get some negative comments. The general point is, even if you say he has "EXCELLENT drive, very strong and agile, even tempered and highly intelligent" it really means nothing to others without proof through titles, certs. or working on the street. "The proof is in the pudding". So outside your breeder you likely will not have much interest. Although it may not carry much importance for police service dogs, I prefer breeding dogs to have some kind of Temperament certification (SchH BH, GSDCA-Temperment test (TC) or pass a Therapy dog test (TDI/CGC)) at a bare minimum if you are not going to title him he should prove to have good temperament and be OFA'd. Take care, Melanie

Hi Jared, Hip [and elbow] ratings are only the tip of the iceburg for credentials looked at to use a male for breeding. While your boy is very handsome, his pedigree does not shriek "stud dog!!!!!!" His sire is titled, but does not have a highly recognizable bloodline, nor is he a well known competition dog. And when you say your breeder is looking for a female to breed to him - that is confusing....his sire is a working line titled dog, dam is a show line dog with no credentials listed - perhaps this is an oversight??? How did YOU find this male????? Are you in LE???? In this area of the country, very few LE agencies buy dogs younger than 14 months, and they want working Euro lines - czech and WGR/Belgian/Netherlands kennels. Most LE agencies with any tenure in having K9s do not want half or full show lines. Most breeders do not mix types, and those that do will carefully chose one to keep for their long term programs as the cross was chosen to bring in something specific. Yes, often LEO do buy GSD puppies as family dogs, and some will even breed dogs, after all, John Q. Public thinks that if a LEO is breeding GSDs, they have to be superior "police dogs". Most serious breeders in the US have a titled male or two in their possession, and several more available in their club. A small percentage of breeders go outside their own backyard for a stud service. Those that do are usually very serious about producing top caliber pups, and are looking for males who have exceptional credentials and are proven producers. Most working line schh3 males get few, if any breedings, to quality titled females in their lifetimes. I have one Schh3 KKL male, and a young male coming along who I will title as well. I am often approached by people who have a female and want to breed to one of my handsome males. Some have had litters before and even have a third generation female. But most just have a dog they love and think is the best thing since sliced bread and they want more like her! I ask about hip ratings on their females, and if they even have AKC credentials like a CGC or CD. Unfortunately, I know that even when I decline thier offer of a stud fee puppy [or a stud fee $!!!] they will find someone with an intact male who loves it just as much and there will be another Sunday paper litter advertised in a few months.

Jared G, I know that I am being somewhat redundant as to what others have already said. Past a successful hip/elbow evaluation you should certainly have your male measured to check his conformation to the breed standard. You did not say whether you are a member of the GSDCA-WDA, or United Schutzhund Clubs of America. If you become a member of the GSDCA-WDA they do offer an interesting temperament evaluation as well as a conformation evaluation, among other certifications and titles. Their evaluation measures the stability of the dog when he is exposed to strange situations and persons who behave strangely. And they offer working Schutzhund trials if you are interested and your dog is capable. You can work for a non-titled achievement such as the AKC's CGC evaluation. This will test the temperament of the dog in a purely obedience-oriented situation with a lot of non-threatening distractions. The CGC will not appear on the AKC pedigree because it is an achievement-not a title. But of course you do receive a certificate. There are other working titles that do not require a test for fighting courage such as a tracking or herding dog certification if the dogs has the desire to do these things. Although none of these are as extensive as a successful Schutzhund 3 examination, they do provide some insight into the dog's character. And, few dogs are capable of achieving the Schutzhund 1, 2, or 3 title anyway. However, many of the these other dogs can do very well in other scored events, provided they have a sufficient work/play drive and are mentally stable. Bob-O

Hi Jared...Just thought I'd ask (don't think you said anywhere)but how old is your dog...Where are you located in the U.S.?...A lot of vets don't have the experience to take good x-rays...So be sure to ask around in your area for someone that has the pertinent experience with x-rays...Maybe check with your local police dept (k-9 dept)and ask who does their x-ray...

Wow... so many replies! GSDfan; I see your point as to proving his abilities. As to where did I find my dog; Yes, im in LE, and his Sire was the K-9 on my squad at my old department. The Sire was imported by my breeder, who mated him prior to selling the dog on to the department. The Sire was imported from Czech and is a very good dog. His breeder is an ex-K-9 Sgt and trains/imports/breeds dogs for Law Enforcement full time now. I think the breeder is willing to go outside of his current studs simply became he knows him well and is aware of his abilities. He's also a very good looking dog. He said Rebel is the strongest dog he's ever worked with, and has the drive of a malinois. Im sure ya'll here the "Well, my breeder said..." alot, but I've known him for a long time and trust his opinion - afterall, he had nothing to gain from telling me that as i've had the dog since he was 3 months old :-) Im not a member of any clubs... Im still learning here! I like the idea of some of the stuff the WDA offers. My main turn off when it comes to reciving Schutzhund titles is the amount of time it would take - unfortunatly I just dont have the spare time to be able to jump through all the hoops. Im located in Florida and my dog is 24 Months old.