Using a Broker - Pros and Cons - Page 1

Dear Board Members: I am thinking about using a broker to find a quality working/show line German Shepherd primarily for a companion/protection dog but possibly for breeding. This board has been helpful to me, a novice, so I'm back. Pros and cons of using a broker? One specific question: People always say, "the German breeders, they are not going to give you their best dogs." How am I to interpret that? Is the "pool" only going to be, for example, just pups who score 4 or "worse" on an apptitude test? If I want a fairly high drive, extremely intelligent, good temperament, strong, maybe even "in your face" dog will they all be taken from the available "pool" before the broker even has access? Thanks. -- Molly

Hi Molly, I have imported many dogs from a lady named Sonja in Neuberend Germany. Her E male is German.Shepherd@t-online.de. She knows what she is doing and she does act as an agent for German people who do not have a computer or speak english. She knows how to ship and send the necessary paperwork. The last one I Imported from her was a son of 3 times VA "Erasmus Van Noort" last December. My name is Mike from Vom Brunhaus German Shepherds in New Jersey and you may use my name when you contact her.Good Luck

Molly, This issue comes up all the time. I had a dog imported from Germany by a close freind of mine. He came over from Germany about 7 years ago and has a lot of friends back there. When I first started looking for a pup I was going to get one from him. He did not have what I wanted so I kept looking. After about 6 months I told him I wanted a male pup from Germany. My goal is to go to the Nationals and compete with this pup. It took several litters to find the dog I wanted. He had to search for a long ti for this pup. I don't lie to myself I know this dog would have never been sent to me had it not been for my friend knowing this breeder first hand. His friends watched the pups and told him I had two dogs to chose from but one was definately better than the other. I am not saying that you will not be able to do this on your own, but lets be honest. If you were a breeder with a litter and one of the pups was showing great promise, what would you do? Would you sell it to a complete stranger, keep it for yourself, or send it where you trusted the person who had it. I am not saying its impossible to get a top dog from Germany, but if you do not have someone that you trust 100% then DO NOT import a dog sight unseen. Find a good breeder in the country that you live in and go see the dogs, see them early, see them often and make your own decision.

Every breeder will always hold back what they consider the best for themselves regardless if in Germany or any other place. They may part with something good if they have no room, or if the buyer will make something out of this pup. The pick of the litter will not always stay best though. Many dogs that are at the top are not owned by the breeder any more after all, and were not necessarily the breeder pick. You do not need the best breeder pick, you need what is best suited to you. Your needs and goals, and that of another person can be entirely different. What a breeder may consider best may be totally unsuitable for you. In each litter you have one best male and one best female. If you have a good size litter to draw from then the pups other than these two will not automatically be below the mark. Some litters are very uniform where you can pick blind and always pick a good one. Some litters are completely off and even the pick may not be a good pup. You need to know what you want and look for exactly that, even if another pup may be considered better. S_VARGAS was very clear in what he needed/wanted and had the patience to wait for it and then trusted the recommendations given to him. Also, be careful what you wish for. If this is your first pup and you want strong drives for example, such a pup can easily grow into a dog that turns out to be too much for you. Go back to what you really need, what you want from such a pup and find a pup that will fit those requirements. If a seller, be it broker or breeder, tells you every pup or dog he has available is great, super in this or that, the best and so on, then that clearly cannot be true. Look for reasonable descriptions of a dog, no promises that play into your own wishful thinking and stay away from people who try to pressure or manipulate you into a sale. Trust your gut feeling. If something feels off, it probably is. If something seems too good to be true it probably is. If in doubt, say no. There will always be another. One more thing - aptitude tests... unlikely going to happen with a German breeder. NO offence, you have a common novice attitude, you are looking for the sure thing. Also not going to happen. At best you will get a show, SchH, or breeding *prospect*. How and if that is going to materialize remains to be seen. No one can predict how a pup will develop.

Hi, I have used a broker twice and had the following. The first dog was excellent (a working partner) the second imported from the same broker came with a lot of bagage. Abused, not trained as reported. I have spent thousands of dollars on this gal and the papers she came with were not even hers! I did alot of inquiries and was told about Eurosport canine and how honest they were. My newest dog is beyond my expectations. She is training for disaster work and arrived with confidence and healthy. I was snet videos of her on variable surfaces etc. check them out sarah atlas NJ-TF1

mrawle -- there is very very good advice from s vargas and DH -- really look into and feel their words - for the reality is something difficult to express ... even with words -- there are some good brokers no doubt about their reputations .. .. BUT don't forget people that breed for show or working most often have thier own agendas and plans too !!! not to say that there can be several good dogs in a litter for sale as previous explained to you -- i mean this with respect to you -- i have found that there is a direct correlation to the accomplishing in attaining a quality dog for show and work that is in direct proportion to the experience one has in what they wish to do with the pup -- now i could be off on this but in my many years of experience i have found this to almost be empirical -- you must know exactly what you want ... and be able to recognize and ascertain that what you want and have is truely so .... you must also acquire a very very good relationshipo with honest and knowledgable GSD people who knmow that you can make a due with what you want ... -- for example i can tell you if you wish a dog for work exactly what the potential of a pup is and what is not .. not because i know it all but because i thoroughly and inside out understand 1. genetics , 2.canine behaviorism 3. the GSD form/standard and structure .. 4. learned from many many wonderful other GSDD people at trials and seiger shows over many many years - spent time with gemnay's and usa's best GSD people --and they acknowledge and recogzie those facts ... this is what you must do -- as my dad told me -- in life you must start at the first rung of the ladder and work your way up -- i am trying to be honest --- ask yourself with your experience and level -- even with the willingness to spend a lot of money -- will someone be willing to give to you the best or one of the best working or show pups ?? much to contemplate -- good luck ...

check with dog1,he seem to be able to get actcess to good dogs...............

EDD in Afgan, please see TOS #10, which states: "Please don't drop promotional url's (we do not allow signature file url's). Signing your name is fine, however commercialized posts or resume signatures will be edited. We tend to err on the side of caution to protect the integrity of the system by reducing flippant commercialized posts. Affiliate based URLs are not allowed anywhere on the system." If everyone is allowed to post website URL's for "great breeders, brokers" or whatever, this site would be filled up with them. Please ask people to email you privately if they would like a website address. Thank you! :) POST HAS BEEN EDITED: EDD in Afgan Using a Broker - Pros and Cons (0 replies) 28 Apríl 2006 - 19:04 Reply I use Sonja alot. As a broker, is not overpriced like some of the brokers I have talked to, yes makes money at it but does not try and retire on one sale. I have also bought direct from breeders. If you don't speak German, and don't import alot of dogs or even if you do Sonja is definetly the way to go, smooth transaction, shipping, and sonja is very careful to try and get you exactly what you want. Sonja knows the dogs personally. Sonja has even steered me away from a more expensive dog to a less expensive one because it would more suit what I needed it for. Hope this helps Mike

According to TOS#10, resume signatures will be edited. This means that you cannot post your kennel name in the messageboard area, or your post will be edited. Your name is fine, so long as you have no problems with other people knowing your full name. I will try to (for now) put an explanation of anything that is edited on the database, so everyone will learn from everyone else! :) We're ALL learning and the Terms Of Service will now be adhered to. :) Here is your edited post: tkriley Using a Broker - Pros and Cons (0 replies) 28 Apríl 2006 - 19:04 Molly, I too have used Sonja as a broker. The female that she picked for me (a Sven Grafental female) has a drive that will not quit. She is very educated and will highly trustworthy. Tammy Riley

Mike, Please see the above post for one reason why this has been edited. Please do not post personal information. If this person wants their full name on here, they are welcome to post their name themselves. Vom Brunhaus Using a Broker - Pros and Cons (0 replies) 29 Apríl 2006 - 01:04 Hi Molly,As Tammy said Sonja is knowledgeable and trustworthy. She and her team are out training and working with the dogs everyday. Every year she gives me her Siegerschau comments on the dogs competing in the Sieger, and she knows what she is talking about even when it comes to USA buyers trying to scam her! My older male a Schutzhund 3 came from her back in 1999 - Seigo and he arrived in good order no problems and X Rayed normal! Mike, N.J.