No pet policy - Page 1

What do those of you whom train german shepherds for protection work think about not letting people pet your dog? Is this the way to go? I have read different things from different people and some say no, some say yet. I have even considered implementing a no pet policy but it seems so rude to constantly have to tell people oogling over your dog while taking him out in the world that they cannot pet him. Any ideas?

My dogs even though not protection dogs are not to be petted during our outings. This has always been my policy and will continue to do it this way.

First of all, I would want to know what you really mean by "protection work". If you really mean Schutzhund, then that is quite different and, in my opinion, was meant to be and should be different than from a dog who is really trained for protection or police apprehension work. Most people confuse these concepts and terms. I will give a different viewpoint that what has come before. I have 23 GSDs here. All are approachable and all may be petted by anyone whom I allow to come near enough the dogs to do so. I would much rather have dogs who are good ambassadors for the breed and are friendly and approachable, than those who some owner intimates or actually says are not approachable. If the dog is working, that is one thing and no, I would not want someone trying to pet the dog. Frankly, my dogs would not want to be petted because they would rather be with me when they are working and they are focused. This is how they are trained. But, that said, I take my dogs everywhere and people naturally see them and think they are very good looking dogs and want to pet them. This is, in my opinion, a time to talk to people about the breed, about the sport of Schutzhund and about how a dog should be chosen carefully to match the owner. If the person says they want a GSD, this is a time for me to help them understand that they must think carefully about what they really intend to do with the dog and what kind of instincts and temperament they really want in a dog. If someone really wants a rug that can give a slurpy kiss, and they do not want to spend time and energy training and socializing the dog, I am not interested in selling them a dog, at whatever price. All my SchH dogs know the difference between when it is time to work and when it is time for something else. They know the difference between people who really might be threats vs those who pose no threat. A dog, for most owners, must be able to live in society . This means a dog that is out should be approachable, though supervised *(the person approaching as well). Under normal circumstances, I think that the issue is not one of being "rude", but of presenting the wrong impression of the dog and the breed as a whole. As it is, the breed has plenty of strikes against it. All of us, both here in the U.S. and other countries too, are seeing breed bans. Giving the average person the impression that a GSD is unapproachable under supervision is, in my opinion, absolutely the wrong thing to do.

Well said hodie!

If the dogs are trained truly as "protection" dogs as is a police K-9 or military reconnaisance dog, then petting by others tends to be a no-no. Of course this type of dog is typically a true civil-drive type and must be protected from any contact with people other than the handler for its entire working life for the sake of the people, the dog, and his owner. I must add that this type of dog presents an extremely level of personal and financial responsibility for the owner/handler. As Hodie said, if the dog is involved in Schutzhund sport, then it is a very different situation. It is important that the dog realize that all people are equal to the handler/owner in order for the dog to have respect for the helper. The Schutzhund sport dog is trained to bite a protection sleeve, not what appears to be an unprotected leg or arm. These dogs must have some socialization in order to be more safe and controllable around people who are NOT wearing a bite sleeve on one (1) arm. With all that said however, I do insist that people ask me (they usually do-I guess because it is a GSD) before they can pet any of my dogs and I am especially cautious with children. I tend to take a moment and explain to the child how the dog should be approached in order to avoid the child spooking the dog. I think that it is important that children know to ask first, then pet properly once permission is granted. In closing, unless the dog is bred and trained as a true protection type, I think it is a wise thing to allow the dog to be approachable by people. If the person has sinister intents, most dogs can sense this easily and at least alert the owner/handler. I know that mine can. Bob-O

Out of respect for you and your dogs people should ask before they approach and pet your dog.If your dog is not approachable because of temperment, than you should use discretion with the situations you put yourself and the dog in.It is unwise to have such a dog in a public place where small children may just run up to them. I have this happen at the park all the time. I have trained personal protection dogs and there is no reason why someone should not be able to pet my dog, with my permission of course -- Even if they are rude and don't get permission the dog should have no problem with it. Also each dog has it's own personality and you as the owner and trainer need to be able to evalute and anticipate your dogs response in the situations you take it into. Problems need to be resolved before they get started not afterward, if you are aware of your surroundings and your dog you can usually see situations before they unfold.If you are unsure try situations in a controlled or "setup" environment before you expose yourself and dog to possible problems. When I am working or training my dogs and I see people approaching I tell them that we are working and the dog may not be petted at this time.

Meanderer, you did refer to a good site. As you probably know, Leerburg is a working dog kennel, and the owner takes working dogs very seriously. If that is the type of dog that you really want and the dog is up to the task, then in my opinion you should follow the examples offered by the site. It is a very special and rare type of dog who has enough civil and fight drive to do true protection work, yet behave in a civilized manner when the situation calls for it. If that is the type of dog that you own, know that you have a rare type. Bob-O

It depends on what the dog is trained/used for. Dogs guarding an enclosed area such as a military base or junk yard, should not and will not be petted. Even when on an outing to the vet or other such movement. Dogs which are Attack on Command only, must be able to be petted (or the attack on command is not functioning properly), Dogs used for sport or police work must be able to be petted unless given a preparatory command such as "watch him", which heightens their sense of apprehensiveness (if they are trained that way). Dogs trained to make decisions like guarding a home or business (I trained one dog for an exterminating company that the only time the dog was allowed/supposed to attack, was if anyone opened a particular sliding window above the cash box/register area) must be able to be petted. I could go on, but the point is "what is the dog used for now and in the future." Of course we all know that they are not robots and mistakes can and will be made, so choose your poison carefully, and be careful what you ask for as you just might get it.

I know several K-9's and a few PP dogs, I know many many Sch trained dogs, fortunately all these dogs that I have met are more than just approachable they are all very social. Yet all very proficient in the work and tasks they are trained in. I am amazed that anyone would have a "No Petting" policy, In fact that really scares me. All of our dogs are very approachable when we are home and when we are with them, Sometimes they will even approach people themselves, When we have guests in our home, When we are in a park folks who walk up are often met by our dogs within a few feet they are anxious for the affection they are about to receive, I am very happy with this behavior from our dogs for several reasons some of which are metnioned in above comments, 1. Ambassadors of the breed. 2. Confident Temperaments. I beleive that confidence makes an even better PP dog rather than a shy or fearful dog. I must say I'm glad to have seen the subject brought up I think the word should be out that dogs should be confident enough to be approached by strangers and behave in an appropriate fashion dogs who are not should not be taken lightly and would take a very expeirienced handler who would know better than to take them into any kind of public situation, Those dogs could give off the wrong type of attention to the breed. And myself I would not be breeding a dog that is not approachable, I would not want that kind of Liability on me, Nor would I be able to sleep. Personally I highly encourage all of our puppy buyers with an incentive program to 1. enroll in obedience classes right away, 2. get into sch sport, SAR, Herding, Detection, Agility, or other sports with they're dogs and we absolutely insist on socialization. We educate them as to the importance of socialization and the consecquences of not doing so. I guess my opinion and I do train Sch. is that if you don't allow your dog to be social he will not be social and could make a very big mistake, If you allow them to be social and allow them to follow they're training mistakes should be few if not void. They are animals like we are people and do make mistakes but hopefully the training done properly and a sound temperament you will never see a mistake. I also manage an animal shelter and will tell you this, The confident dogs that come here I watch closely, But the fearful dogs I never turn my back on and usually Euthanize as soon as possible, Fear biters are my absolute scarryest dogs, And are the dogs that will bite anyone under any circumstance. I have been nailed by fearful dogs many times, But have never been bitten by a confident dog even though I have pushed them into capture they are steady enough to allow me to capture them and still not bite. A fearful dog in a corner will bite EVERY TIME !

In sports the sleeve is the prey, In presonal protection the person is the prey. Raising pups to do both is similar until age 6 months. This is when you limit the socializing of the pup being raised for personal protection. Limit the socializing to adults, no never limit the socialization to children. A true personal protection dog ( A police dog is an advanced personal protection dog)is thought to bite when given a certain command or in certain situations. The dog must be able to control himself and should not want to bite everyone and everytime. You must teach him why and when to bite. The dog is to be approachable by people who are no treat and always by children. This is basis knoweledge that should be known by all trainers. Having a personal protection do is like having a loaded gun you must know how and when to use it.