Dominance problems with 14m old Crok grandson - Page 1

I have been having some dominance issues with my 14month old Crok grandson. He isn't bad yet, but i can see it starting to escalate so i want to nip it now why he is still young and before it get really bad. It seems like he will fight me just to fight me. He knows out, and outside his crate he will usually out fairly well with out much choking off or anything else, but sometimes it seems like he decides he doesn't want to let go and wont let go for nothing. Ive tried choking him off when he gets like this and he will let his tongue go blue and gasp for air but still wont let go, if i try to pinch his gums/ears/etc hell start this screaming (assuming from the pain of being pinched) but will just clamp down harder. Everything i have tried that have been suggested to me for outting works SOMETIMES but when he gets in his mood it seems no motivation, no correction no nothing is worth letting go. Also if he happens to jump in his crate to fast and i dont get the toy/ball from him, he kind of puts his head down and gives me this look like he's saying "just try to take it, ill hurt you" Now needless to say, i am not scared of him, and reach in there and take the ball/toy (well try too ;-)) He is also being more defiant in other aspects like OB and general house manners/OB. He is also starting to jump on my 3.5yr old male for no reason (my other male is far from being an Alpha, but hes not the Omega either, he seems to just not care about the pack order) which in return will cause a fight. OK so my question is, WHAT do i do to correct this behavior before he gets older and more mature and becomes worse. TIA Jessica Gainer gsdbrisko@sbcglobal.net

Hello, this matter needs to be solved quickly, by the sounds of it, this dog is the leader you need to be more physical with the dog and show him that this behaviour is unacceptable, whats happening is he sees you as a weak point, no disrespect but the dominant dogs tend to try and bully the less dominant people. Dogs no a leader when they see one. Another suggestion would be to when he goes to fight you distract him with his favourite toy and show him that playing is better than fighting. If that shows no progress grip him firmly and tell him no thats the wrong behaviour and walk away calmy with no eye contact. good luck in the future.

Jessica, is this Magic? Here's what you do... Call Val, tell her that Magic is a bad boy, tell her to get my address and phone number. Get a health certificate on him, ship him to me with the AKC registration signed over to me, and I'll take it from there! ;o) Seriously though, you might be creating more conflict in trying to choke him off a grip than you realize. It takes more time, but creates more understanding, if you wait him out and then allow him to get another bite after he has outed. The corrections you're giving might just be stimulating him to fight for the item more. You also need to make it clear to him that the toy/items you use are YOURS and you just allow him to play with them.

Hello, I have a few Crock grandkids, have delt with this same issue with the males but not the females. here is what I have done and it worked very well. LOTS OF OBEDIENCE not with a toy but with food or force only!!!!! Bringing in the toy just caused to many issues. After training and if he has done good then he will get the toy. I keep the ball on a long rope (about 20') so that I can get it and real him in to me if he refusses to bring it to me. I have a stick or a wooden dowl that I have sharpend on one in, not a sharp point that will cut, but a blunt point. I then very calmly tell the dog to "out" one time, when he doesn't I then walk myself up the line, and pull the stick out of my back pocket and slip it in the side of his mouth and poke the top of the mouth, you may have to do this hard the first time or so, when he lets it go, HE DOESN'T GET IT BACK....he only gets to continue to play when he plays correctly, outing when he is told. If he doesn't "out" and I have to do the above....I then go back to obedience training. The biggest thing I could tell you is to make sure you don't fight him, show no emotion with him when you are correcting him, very calm. I do very little bite work with this type of dogs, more obedience, and tracking. They just don't need the conflict with the bitework, and they have the drive to do the work even with all the obedience.

Mike I am with you on this one, I really like this type of dog!!! Heather

Yea its Magic... I knwo fighting him makes him worse, he LOVES the fight... I did tell her I should just give him to her to train for me since she's the BEST alpha bitch ive ever seen... but i couldnt give him up he's a great dog and he's so much fun to work!

I agree with Mike on this one.. Force and fighting are just going to make him worse.. use your head not your muscle..

Het brought something up that a friend had suggested to me some time back. Do the OB for food, it doesn't create the super high drive and excitement in OB so less chance of creating a bad situation (ie. fighting over the toy in order to continue with training). In order to avoid problems, this is the kind of dog that everything needs to be consistent and black/white. Don't correct him for something once then let him get away with it later, he'll start to challenge more often if you do so.

Jessica, Here is my recommendation: 1. Use a prong collar connecting to a lead. The prong collar should surround his upper neck, not too tight or loose (void space should be the thickness of your plam). 2. Try to get him to sit, and give him something you know that he won't let go. 3. Now give him your "out" command (whatever word you're using). If he doesn't out instantly, pull the lead (you're indeed pulling the porng collar) adequately, simutaneously use your leg to give him a slight kick on his mid belly (he is sitting so this should be now between his front and hind legs). Note how hard you pull and kick is dependent on his pain tolerance threshold. Adjust your force accordingly. 4. He would out, and you priase him. 5. Contingency: if you couldn't sit him down and he stands, get a helper to hold up his rear end around hind legs (above 1-2 ft aboveground) at the same time you are pulling the lead. 6. He will out. Praise him. I recommend to train dogs with the understanding of their anatomy and scological attributes. It is totally against the nature when a dog's mid belly is disturbed or rear end rasied up, they would therefore spit out anything they have in mouth. While you're pulling the prong collar, it is also unpleasant until he outs (when he gets his price - your praise). Keep in mind it is always black and white for dogs, and you must establish a solid foundation. Do not bride your dogs with food/toy unless your have that foundation or unless you are training in tracking. The above will work. For the fellows against using a prong collar: using a choker collar cause longer pain on airpipe. Proper use of a prong collar promotes information flow between you and your dog during initial training stage.

Crok was a handler aggressive dog. there are two handlers in kansas with crok sons who were both handler aggressive. Russ osborn who trained and handled bronco a crok son and Scott hedger. There contact information can be found on the schutzund usa website. This behaviour was evident much earlier and should have been addressed then. At 14 months you may be to late to correct this as this is genetic in this animal. I would find a very experienced handler to help you with this dog such as Dean Calderon,T Floyd or any of the top handlers in the sport today or any experienced police dog handler and trainer. good luck kaninchengehege