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by newtoschh on 30 July 2010 - 22:07
I would like to hear opinions on this set of x-rays for hips and elbows if you all wouldn't mind. Thanks so much.
This is a 13 month old female.
This is a 13 month old female.
by newtoschh on 31 July 2010 - 00:07
by k9queen on 31 July 2010 - 03:07
Elbows look fine. I don't care for the hips at all. I would call the right hip fair to good and the left hip mildly dysplastic. I would have to x-ray repeated with proper positioning and would highly recommend sending it in to OFA for a prelim.
by Bob-O on 31 July 2010 - 05:07
I will not judge the elbows for they are much more difficult compared to hips. To me; they appear fine. But I do not have the proper tools to use here.
The positioning for the hip radiograph is poor. I would ask the veterinarian to do it again at his expense. He should "know better" than try to submit something like this. I have seen worse - but one pays full price for correct.
I see good pelvic coverage of the acetebeli and I think the hips will pass easily. Correct positioning would improve the appearance and possibly the score. There is some laxity but this is a puppy here.
If this was an adult dog; the hips would score no worse than OFA "fair"/S.V. "a" fast Normal and might score as well as OFA "good"/S.V. "a" Normal. The S.V. would provide a score for them now since the puppy is past twelve (12) months of age; but of course the OFA will not provide the final score until she is past twenty-four (24) months of age.
I would raise her carefully and keep her lean - just as one should. Personally I think she will be fine.
Best Regards and Good Luck,
Bob-O
The positioning for the hip radiograph is poor. I would ask the veterinarian to do it again at his expense. He should "know better" than try to submit something like this. I have seen worse - but one pays full price for correct.
I see good pelvic coverage of the acetebeli and I think the hips will pass easily. Correct positioning would improve the appearance and possibly the score. There is some laxity but this is a puppy here.
If this was an adult dog; the hips would score no worse than OFA "fair"/S.V. "a" fast Normal and might score as well as OFA "good"/S.V. "a" Normal. The S.V. would provide a score for them now since the puppy is past twelve (12) months of age; but of course the OFA will not provide the final score until she is past twenty-four (24) months of age.
I would raise her carefully and keep her lean - just as one should. Personally I think she will be fine.
Best Regards and Good Luck,
Bob-O
by newtoschh on 31 July 2010 - 05:07
Thank you K9Queen for your response, I am however surprised that with over 150 views on this thread that you are the only one that decided to give a response. I am also dissapointed, I have seen other "X-Ray Opinion" threads and have seen better response. I know there is a lot of knowledge on this board, I don't expect any expert opinions, but just the opinions of owners and breeders that have seen many x-rays and know the outcome of the results from said x-rays for a comparison. Come on people I know you are out there, a little help please. After I get a little better response, if I do, I will post what the vet said about these x-rays. Thank you again for your responses....I look forward to hearing them
-K9Queen, is it your opinion that possibly better positioning could change the results, either good or bad? To me the pelvis looks crooked with the left hip looking higher and the leg is not straight like the right side is, which to me makes it appear that the joint looks to be not as deeply seated as it should. You can also see that the left leg is in a different position if you look at the outline of what would be the whole thigh. Thanks again for your thoughts.
-K9Queen, is it your opinion that possibly better positioning could change the results, either good or bad? To me the pelvis looks crooked with the left hip looking higher and the leg is not straight like the right side is, which to me makes it appear that the joint looks to be not as deeply seated as it should. You can also see that the left leg is in a different position if you look at the outline of what would be the whole thigh. Thanks again for your thoughts.
by newtoschh on 31 July 2010 - 05:07
Bob-O,
Thank you sooooo much for your detailed opinion. I am grateful and yet sad, as this customer was told that this vet was basically the know all end all for the German Shepherd breeders in their area, they took these x-rays in April and only just sent them to me this week, they spayed the dog last week and of course are wanting a replacement puppy, which I have a 5 year guarantee against a crippling grade of hip/elbow displasia but this does not seem to fit that description at all. Below is what the vet put in the letter as to his opinion of these x-rays:
Standard radiographic views demonstrated a poorly left coxofemoral (hip) joint consistent with hip dysplasia. Elbo radiographs show sclerosis of the ulnar trochlear notch and some osteophyte changes on the olecranon, changes consistent with elbow dysplasia. These findings were my interpretation and not those of a panel of boarded radiologists, but in my opinion these changes make it unlikely that said dog will be passed by the radiology boards for the German A Stamp or American OFA.
What are your thoughts on that?
They didn't even want to breed this dog but maybe once or twice, but wanted to show and trial her.
Thank you sooooo much for your detailed opinion. I am grateful and yet sad, as this customer was told that this vet was basically the know all end all for the German Shepherd breeders in their area, they took these x-rays in April and only just sent them to me this week, they spayed the dog last week and of course are wanting a replacement puppy, which I have a 5 year guarantee against a crippling grade of hip/elbow displasia but this does not seem to fit that description at all. Below is what the vet put in the letter as to his opinion of these x-rays:
Standard radiographic views demonstrated a poorly left coxofemoral (hip) joint consistent with hip dysplasia. Elbo radiographs show sclerosis of the ulnar trochlear notch and some osteophyte changes on the olecranon, changes consistent with elbow dysplasia. These findings were my interpretation and not those of a panel of boarded radiologists, but in my opinion these changes make it unlikely that said dog will be passed by the radiology boards for the German A Stamp or American OFA.
What are your thoughts on that?
They didn't even want to breed this dog but maybe once or twice, but wanted to show and trial her.
by dogshome9 on 31 July 2010 - 06:07
For me I believe the dog was in a tilted position when the hip x-ray was taken and yes correct positioning atleast give an honest chance of a better result the left side sits higher than the right. and I thought that the elbows looked clean and a pass. Just my opinion 
.
Was that a specialist report or just the vet that took the x-rays ? Re read the vets opinion ---- no specialist evaluation
Why firstly did they wait so long to inform you and secondly why did they spey her and then tell you ?
I would be mad as hell if that had been one of my puppies.
Before I would give them another puppy I would have the dog x-rayed by a vet that I trusted and have a specialist read them.
.Was that a specialist report or just the vet that took the x-rays ? Re read the vets opinion ---- no specialist evaluation
Why firstly did they wait so long to inform you and secondly why did they spey her and then tell you ?
I would be mad as hell if that had been one of my puppies.
Before I would give them another puppy I would have the dog x-rayed by a vet that I trusted and have a specialist read them.
by amysue on 31 July 2010 - 12:07
Elbows can be difficult to read, except for the obviously bad ones. As for the hips, I would recommend finding a specialist or board-certified radiologist that you can ask questions to (some won't tell you what they think but just refer you to the OFA). Since you are trying to convince these owners that their dog is not dysplastic (which I don't believe it is, at least hips), I wouldn't base the whole thing on just Dr. Keller's eval as he can easily say Borderline or even Mild. I think these hips could pass the OFA with better positioning and a lucky OFA panel. I had a girl that failed OFA (with mild) but had very clean and symmetrical hips and passed later. Just goes to show that WHO reads the x-rays is extremely important.
What is in your contract? Any OFA failing elbows/hips at 2 years get a replacement? Does the dog need to display lameness? From your side, it does not sound like someone you really care about breeding your dog... they rush into spaying w/o second or YOUR opinion. Just saying, maybe things worked out for the best. Good luck with whoever redoes the x-rays and please let us all know.
What is in your contract? Any OFA failing elbows/hips at 2 years get a replacement? Does the dog need to display lameness? From your side, it does not sound like someone you really care about breeding your dog... they rush into spaying w/o second or YOUR opinion. Just saying, maybe things worked out for the best. Good luck with whoever redoes the x-rays and please let us all know.
by B.Andersen on 31 July 2010 - 14:07
Retake if submitting to OFA. Knees need to be rotated in.Hips are good positioning is not great. Elbows are harder look ok to me.
by gagsd4 on 31 July 2010 - 15:07
Xrays position is not perfect, but is good, and would not be returned by OFA..
The left hip is not deeply seated, and in my experience will be considered dysplastic.
Elbows look a little "fuzzy" around the joint, particularly the left one. Very similar to what is shown here. http://www.offa.org/elbowgrade.html
It is very hard to tell how the dog will do performance-wise as she ages.
--Mary
The left hip is not deeply seated, and in my experience will be considered dysplastic.
Elbows look a little "fuzzy" around the joint, particularly the left one. Very similar to what is shown here. http://www.offa.org/elbowgrade.html
It is very hard to tell how the dog will do performance-wise as she ages.
--Mary
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