salmonella poisoning - Page 6

Vom Marischel or whatever your name is.. You are apparently very gullible to believe that the body can produce bowel movements when there is no food coming in. Especially the mass quantities of feces referred to in that article. That stretches the truth a bit too far for any discerning mind. There are all sorts of stupid myths about monks and ascetics. Stupid people believe them. Probably hundreds of millions of dollars are thrown at such foolishness, every year. I'll be the first to admit that I believe in some of this stuff.. or at least I do not disbelieve, out of hand.. But, let's stick to facts.. How about some science for a change? 

I don't know of many people who were stupid enough to "fast" for "WEEKS", much less "MONTHS" (Why would any sane person do this, even if it were possible?).. Other than anorexia, which is a mental illness. OK.. It's pretty well accepted that the mean survival time for a person without water would be 3 days, without food, 3 weeks. This is from a reliable source.
http://ask.metafilter.com/41162/How-long-can-humans-last-without-water

As for producing a stool on nothing at all, well.. Bears den up to hybernate for many weeks. They go in fat, and they come out lean and hungry. They are actively metabolizing away their body mass..They often give birth and nurse cubs during this time. They eat foods before they go in to form a rectal plug. So, there may be SOME stool, but it wouldn't be much. Probably a remainder of whatever they ate last before going in to den. Bears are metabolic wonders, which humans are not (monastic disciplines notwithstanding). Dogs are far more flexible metabolically than most people would imagine. Dr. Leon Whitney, DVM, a much awarded and prolific writer on dog behavior and health, has said that dogs can gain and lose weight faster than any other domestic animal. I would say from experience that this is true, with BIG allowances for individual metabolism and behavior. A compulsive runner in the kennel (which Figgy was) can go down in weight with alarming speed. They look like an overtrained marathon runner.. which they are. I've only owned three such dogs in all the time I've been with the dogs, and they were very high maintenance dogs with caloric needs approximately twice that of an average dog of the same breed, age, weight.

I have had my experiences with dogs with these tendencies.. compulsive runners. Anyone who has had a kennel with a lot of dogs over a period of years has seen a few of these dogs. If I ever see another one like this, I will have it euthanized. I'm not going to fool around with it, again. I've learned this lesson. That dog Figgy did not have to be euthanized. She was eating and drinking.. in fact, she had just eaten and taken water and been out that morning. The Pet NAZI's wanted to put her down, and it was disappointing, but this is what I should have had done. She was a shy, nervous dog and not suitable for anything, really. I don't know who would have taken her. I know that there can be shy dogs out of that particular bloodline, so I am not altogether surprised, in hindsight. But the same bloodline can produce some good dogs.. some VERY good dogs.. so, what to do? You roll the dice and deal with what you get. Animals and people alike are born with a basic blueprint for their behavior and emotional makeup. If it were not so, then there would be no point in breeding purebred dogs. But, there are few controls and many variables, and just as in a human family (where siblings all vary considerably and are alike in a few particulars), there are lots of surprises.

And, Kaiser1979.. with respect to your original question..

Salmonella is a bacterium found on the skins of birds and reptiles. It is about as normal to their physiology as staphylococcus is to ours and other mammals.. on the skin, only. It's only when we get overgrowths of these bacteria or particularly aggressive strains which are drug resistant (such as MRSA).. or when they get past the skin's defensive barriers.. or when the immune system is compromised (as with stress or disease).. that a pathological process occurs.

Salmonella and most other bacteria are Ph sensitive.. referring to the relative acidity or alkalinity of the environment. Vinegar.. which I have mentioned before.. is very acidic and is therefore bactericidal / bacteriostatic. Typical acidity of a good wine or apple cider vinegar should be 4% or maybe 5%. That is way too high for bacteria to live.. which is why all of your food condiments such as mustard, ketchup, pickle relish, can be left out at room temperature almost indefinitely. They won't spoil. Neither will the pickled pigs feet and eggs in the purple fluid on the deli shelf. They are preserved in a vinegar solution!

If you have meat that you want to keep for a few days longer than you would like, before you can use it, you might well buy a little time by marinating it in a good vinegar solution. I've done it, many times.. improves the flavor and tenderizes the meat, too. If you want to feed your dog / puppy raw chicken (which I personally do not recommend), then at least wash it well and marinate it for a few hours.. rub it down first.. with a vinegar. Most of the salmonella and other bacteria and toxins will be on the surface of the meat.. on the skin.. NOT inside the meat, so long as it has not been cut or punctured. This is why the e Coli bacterium is so dangerous in hamburger products.. because it can be distributed all through the meat product (because it is ground and mixed in large batches) and because the meat might not be cooked through completely when it is grilled in a patty.

Folks.. This is basic food science. It is well known through the ages that people have used a variety of food preservation / cooking / preparation techniques, most of which do not involve refrigeration. Drying, salting, pickling, packing in air tight sausage skins with fat to fill the space. People only had refrigeration for the last 100 years or so.. most of the people of the world probably still don't have it. Eskimo / Aleut people have a delicacy of goose which is alternately frozen / thawed for weeks until it is rendered to a mush. Ancient Mediterranean people craved a fish sauce called "garum", made from the whole bodies of small fish, fermented in barrels in the hot sun for weeks or months! The Pawnee people of the Great Plains (Native American tribe) prided themselves on being able to survive on nothing but what they found. If they found an old bison carcass, they would crack the bones to eat the marrow. I don't think most people could do this, today.. Their immune systems were never adapted to deal with normal levels of bacteria, and now health / medical experts know that this overzealous approach to hygiene is actually harming our health and setting us up for immune problems.

I think in hindsight that we really did the right thing to take that plea bargain. People are stupid. They love to stand in judgement, feeling good about themselves. I can see it on this list. It's not that I think I'm so smart.. in fact, I am only very curious. When something doesn't look right, or make sense, I want to understand. I see that many of you do not have this gift of curiousity. You have the gift of bigotry and conceit. You think that you know it all and you are happy to jump to conclusions and stick by them, unwilling or too lazy to examine and question anything.. much less yourselves.

You wonder why I keep coming back here. I admit it is a waste of time for me and I have also been asking myself the same thing, sincerely wanting to know why. Now I realize that for me, this is a sort of a smorgasbord of human brains.. Laid before me I see bigotry, hate, ignorance, pride, sloth, malice and cowardice. It's a sort of a dark freak show, in a way.. Not that I enjoy it. But my curiousity drives me. It's really strange for me to believe that this is true, that people can be so stupid. It's been a bit like a bad train wreck.. I don't want to watch, but I could not quite avert my eyes.

Of course, not all on this list are malicious.. and I have made reference to this, before. I have gotten many personal emails and messages from people who are apologizing to me for the behavior of others on this list, or concerned that my feelings would be hurt. Yes, actually my feelings WERE a bit hurt, at first.. Until I realized that the people I was dealing with were fantasy people..faceless, malevolent, ankle-biting trolls. The contemptous treatment from such people is of no concern to me. If you were people of character.. people I have respect for.. your disapproval would cut me to the bone. But, it doesn't bother me, now, because you have revealed your real character.

Most revealing of all.. You never really asked how things turned out for the dogs. You didn't care. You still don't. Fact is that you people don't care about anything. I sincerely doubt that you care about Hodie. Trust me, I've seen this, before. I know of another Hodie like person who gave and gave and worked her ass off for her beloved pit bulls.. Her husband died of a heart attack, she was diagnosed with cancer, and she unplugged her email addy. I ask about her on the lists she used to post on and no one replies. She's simply disappeared from the radar screen, and no one cares enough to even mention her.

Same with so many people who have passed on or moved on to other things.. no one cares.

I think that many of the dog people are just drama addicts, in part. For some of you, this is a smorgasbord of another kind.. human pathos.. the kind probably lacking in your lives. Who knows? I come around once in awhile when I am bored. Otherwise, I am too busy having a life. Today I played with my dogs. They are real. How about you?

You people need to realize what this bullshit is really all about.. It's complicated, but I can give probably 80% of it to you, in a nutshell..

Certain parties are seeking more legislation and regulation for dog breeders (ALL dog breeders, and that includes you if you breed dogs, so be careful what you wish for). The different groups want this increased legislation / regulation for different reasons, but one of the main ones is to "grow empire" for the animal control / humane industry. It IS an industry. And, it is in a pretty direct competition with our little corner of the private sector. We are a work object for them.. the grist for their mill. There's lots of ways they hope to make money and gain political power by controlling all of us.. all of the private sector of society, piece by piece.

The animal control industry started out as a necessary public service which most communities had in common. Someone had to keep animal nuisances.. mainly stray / abandoned animals.. off the streets. That has been 90% of the work of animal control for the last sixty years, at least. The needs of society have changed considerably, over time. Pet overpopulation actually came way down over a period of many years, and has suddenly spiked due to loss of home and jobs.

When I make a recommendation about feeding old food, it is with the sincere hope that it might help someone out there to realize that they maybe can afford to keep their dog.. not turn it in. I have been able in the past to get food scraps from restaurants to feed my dogs. At the time, I had no problem affording commercial food. I just wanted to try to do this to see if it could be done. And, it could, easily! That was probably twenty five years ago. So, I've been interested in alternative ways to feed dogs for a long time, now. Obviously, it is time consuming and you are going to use fuel or electricity to cook your recycled human food. You may also have to travel to pick it up. These things may make it not economical for you. But at least you can save a lot of food that you would otherwise throw out. I don't think that there is anything wrong with raising poultry / cattle / swine for food.. But, I believe it is ethically wrong to waste any food derived from an animal. That's just having respect for the life that they gave.. which is normal and for better or worse, that's the way things work on this planet.. some creatures eat others. We can just try to be a little less primitive about it. Nature abhors waste, and so should we. When something dies or is killed in the wild, it is a banquet for many creatures. We can't just leave our waste foods out for the rats and flies, but we can prepare a LOT of what we throw away for our pets. There is nothing strange or wrong with this. Dogs have lived with man for over 35,000 years, and all of this save the last fifty or so has been on our food scraps, without benefit of refrigeration.

Back to the animal control industry.. The heart of it's profitability is the impound / lien process. Very similar to the automobile impounds, actually. This can be extremely lucrative, and the lobbyists are arguing hard to the public to let the animal control officers forfeit dogs from private property, because there are not so many running loose to grab, now, and the budgets are stretched so thin that there is not enough to keep this industry alive, nor enough licenses coming in. I think that they were and are hoping that forfeiture and impound / lien fees would keep it going and even build it up. The animal rights organizations I believe are helping them, lobbying for them. So, they do love their poster children, and now you may have a little more insight as to why they are loathe to let old bygone issues drop. They simply must keep beating that drum.

Notice, by the way, that Schaferhunden never has anything new to say.. just the same drivel, over and over. Either he thinks that no one has noticed it yet, or he believes that it will somehow have a cumulative or magical effect if he repeats it enough times. If he thinks it will discourage me, he is wrong.

Who were you before you were Schaferhunden? Were you Joe T, back when Judy Malone was on the rotisserie? You must be the one who told Sock Puppet that I am in business with Judy M and Judy D. and that I am selling puppies, here. Both are lies. You are the only one I know of who would really be aware of my past troubles (because I told you, up front) and you are the one who would connect the PedDB handle with the name. All the indicators point in the same direction. The same one who used to tell me he hated Judy M and Judy D...

Why do I feel so strongly that it's you? Well, call it a gut feeling, backed up by some well connected dots. For one thing, on one of our last phone conversations, I hadn't spoken with you for a long time and wanted to catch up on some scuttlebutt. I brought up Judy M and her troubles and you chuckled in a smug / satisfied way that suggested to me that you knew something more, but weren't going to spill the beans.

Makes me sick to my stomach to think that dog people turn on each other as they do. Not cool.. definitely not cool. You want to help the breed? Then help the people who have the dogs. Everyone needs help, now and then. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone needs to hold together. Where is the community? THIS is why we are easy prey and low-hanging fruit for AR activists. I am sick to infinity of hearing people say they are only in it for the dogs, and not the money, but their actions say otherwise. I'm sick of the backstabbers and hypocrites.

I've heard over many years of dog people poisoning and stealing other peoples' dogs... show / business competitors, mainly. There is a real dark side to this business. I preferred it when it was a more sporting environment. The SPORT has advanced, but the sportsmanship has gone out of it, long time ago.. about the time the big money started to come into it. It's sad... very sad, for the dogs.

Who were you before you were the animal abuser? "This is kind of like a dream that turned into a nightmare. We've never made a living off the dogs, I don't know who could." The dogs will be kept at the shelter until the case has an outcome. Bartmess said she doesn't know if she wants the dogs back. "Bartmess also had criticism for the animal control department which never offered her any help" http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/8106/CA/US/

DDR DSH ,
I do not know any person who knowing your history would sympathize with you. Your lies and deceit do not work here any more.I have noticed and i am sure everyone else has that the same people you name as friends and associates were at one time or another on the PDB for the same offenses.Funny how likes attract a likes. My only connection to you SICK-O is to keep you from poisoning people who are no aware of your MO. I thank God every day that i am not your friend or associate your husband or your child and god forbid any animal in your care. "Pet NAZI" look in the MIRROR cause that is how the world see you and how all dogs in your care suffered. And we all know you are breeding and selling puppies. In the END you will be judged your lies and deceit. And the all the pain and suffering you caused those helpless animals.
SEE YA .......bitch

How many dogs do you have now, Schaferhunden? Oh.. That's right.. You are saving the breed. Same delusion many people have had, by the way.. Be careful when throwing stones that none hit your own windows. I have ONE bitch I have used for TWO litters, over TWO years, and I may have one more litter next year, but I think now she is retired. Over that little bit, you are besides yourself, panties all in a bunch. That is legally allowed and there is no issue that you need to concern yourself with. It would be a shame not to have bred her.. She is one of the best producing bitches I've seen in a long, long time.

I could not use the other bitches you sent my way, and I never really tried, because I didn't like them enough to want to see them bred. One was a stir crazy basket case barkaholic with no useful drives and a fairly dull mentality and a ring tail, and the other is a spook.. runs whenever she hears a lawn mower or small firecracker. You used to tell me you would urge the two Judy's to buy what you thought were crappy bitches and then laugh up your sleeve. I hate to think you did that to me, old friend.. 

But, I'm not like the average person out there, whining at every little problem. I just deal with it the best I can, and I don't dump dogs, which is what got me into trouble in the first place (too many dogs). I cannot possibly treat the dogs as a business (sales) because I cannot very easily make those kinds of decisions to end life or even just to pass dogs off to people who are not responsible and a good match for the dog.

I tried for a year to place one of the bitches I got from you (after you blocked the paper transfer) and finally succeeded after I got the papers unlocked. Not easy to place a stir crazy, spinning, barking dog when you are honest about what it is. No one wants that.. The spook I think I will have to have put down by a veterinarian. No one can keep her in a yard for long. She is the only dog I've ever had which has escaped my yard, not once but twice, and both times because of thunder / lightning and firecrackers. Two thousand dollars, down the drain. Fun dog in some ways, but also very destructive.

You are a first class put-down artist, I'll give you that much. I'm sorry you are now apparently miserable and have to take it out on others. Again, I warned you about getting into the dog business, but apparently it's what you wanted. I don't think you are handling the stress very well. But, you wanted this, and now, you have to deal with it. I can only wonder what motivates someone to hate so much as you apparently do, people who you have never actually met, face to face. I've seen a lot of senseless jealousy in the dog game, but you seem to be trying to outdo everyone else in this category. A scorpion will sting itself to death in the end. Be careful with your health.

Judy D. is my friend and I'm proud to say that. She is a genuinely nice person, and she loves her dogs and takes marvelous care of them.. I've seen her dogs several times and always in superlative condition! I've seen her many times make the right decision for the dog.. never "money first" decisions.

Judy M... I think I spoke with last year. I might speak with her once a year. So.. Let's see.. I am not allowed to have friends, not allowed to associate with whom I wish (pending your approval), and not allowed to breed or sell puppies. THAT is your opinion, and you are welcome to it, but my opinion is that you are an incredibly controlling, dominating person who does not know how to mind to their own business. I do not WANT to sell puppies.. I am sick of it from a long time ago. Many things a person could do for money and if they don't want to, they won't. That said, there is nothing wrong with it, per se. If I wanted to sell puppies, then I would be f

Cont..

 If I wanted to sell puppies, then I would be free to do so.. but, I don't. You won't find anyone out there who can prove that I sold them a puppy in the last ten years.. because they do not exist. I sent you some people several years ago, and that is something I would never do, again. It always ended up a problem of some kind.

You hate me now because I didn't let you win the paper game with that bitch you were blocking papers on, and because I dared to befriend your perceived competition. Look around you.. There are a lot of people out there with dogs better than yours. Get over it!!!

You are (IMO) beginning to sound a bit like Mel Gibson.. IMO he is ranting, irrational and angry... full of accusations. We are wondering what'sup with Mel. What is wrong with you? Are you OK? (I really don't care, but maybe you should see a professional who can help you deal iwth your feelings).