salmonella poisoning - Page 1

I need some help from those that have experienced salmonella poisoning in their puppies.  I have a good hunch that my puppy may have contracted salmonella from raw chicken.

What can I do for him?

unless that chicken was so ransid you could smell through the refrigerator - i doubt it was the chicken - do you also feed other raw meats? 

Are you sure you have salmonella? 

probiotics may help, if not to late - natural or pills then lots of water and rest!!

First off, your dog doesn't have salmonella poisoning, if salmonella is causing his symptoms. He has an infection of salmonella bacteria. One of the main symptoms of salmonella is bloody diarrhea. However, other intestinal problems can cause this too. Take him to the vet. It is very important to keep young puppies well hydrated, and he may need IV fluids to get him through this. The smaller the pup, the faster they can become dehydrated.

Why are you asking about this on a message board instead of going to the vet???  This is not something to muck about with!

IMO, anyone who feeds raw is playing Russian roulette with their dog's health. I've heard all the arguments pro and con, all the people who say a dog's immune system is different from a human's and they don't get salmonella and all the other nasty bugs that are in our raw food. But a pup's immune system is not fully developed, so they are more vulnerable to this sort of thing. Raw meat contains Camplyobacter and E. coli as well as other bugs that can make both animals and humans quite sick. Certain strains of E. coli can kill.

Here's some other things that can happen to raw-fed dogs:

Obstipation (obstruction of the bowel caused by too much bone.) This may require anesthesia to disempact the bowel or surgery to relieve the obstruction. It can be fatal.

Puncture of the bowel by a bone fragment. Come on, split a raw chicken leg or wing bone in half, and try telling me those sharp edges aren't capable of damaging the bowel! The Indians used bird bones to make weapons!

Broken teeth from chewing on bones. One of my friends has paid out over $3,000 for veterinary dental work due to one of her corgis chewing too hard on bones.

Bones also get caught in the teeth or throat sometimes, and can cause nasty infections.

As for raw, meaty bones being the best, most natural food for a dog, the people who are saying that are ignoring the fact our dogs have not been wolves for something like 100,000. A LOT of evolution has occured since then, both by natural selection (the dogs who can thrive the best on human food being selected for) and, more importantly, by humans selectively altering the dog's structure. The tooth and jaw structure of our toy breeds certainly isn't designed to deal with raw bones and meat, and even our larger breeds like the GSD have much smaller, weaker  teeth and jaws than the wolf.

Here's a link to an article by a veterinarian, which will back up what I've said above.

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/

Rusty, a very high percentage of chicken meat is contaminated with salmonella. That is why the FDA warns people to wash their hands carefully after handling raw chicken carcasses, and disinfect all cooking implements and surfaces carefully.

And all that is one hell of a lot better than what happens to kibble fed dogs. What a freaking CROCK. 

I agree with Sunsilver. I've seen dogs eat some pretty disgusting stuff, but it's anyone's guess what can happen when you feed contaminated raw food. Not only bacteria but their toxins can be present. Even if the dog can tolerate / survive it, I sure would hate to clean it up, afterwards.

I've found that you can feed a LOT of foods, even foods that most people would consider unfit for consumption, by cooking either a long time in a crock pot or on high heat in a pressure cooker, with a strong vinegar added. The vinegar breaks down the mineral content in the bones and makes it safe, in reasonable amounts. Too much bone in the diet will result in a chalky white stool that's hard to pass, it's true. Raw bones are softer than cooked bones. Both are unsafe, IMO, because the raw bones can be contaminated by bacteria / toxins and the cooked bones can be hard, sharp, and can't break down in the stomach acids. You can solve both problems by cooking with the vinegar. I would not use beef bones.. only soft pork and lamb ribs and poultry or fish. After cooking you should be able to crumble them with your fingers. You get not only the bone meal but the marrow.

I ALWAYS run my fingers through home cooked food to make sure there is nothing in there that the dog cannot handle.

Vinegar is also one of the real miracle disinfectants you can find around the home, improves flavors of food and aids in digestion. In Europe, cooking with wine and vinegar was common practice from a long time ago, because it made a lot of foods safer in a time before refrigeration. This is due to acidity in wine and vinegar.

I've never yet had a dog turn up it's nose at old food prepared this way, or get sick from it. In fact, they love it and seem to do very well on it.. better than dry dog food alone and good economy.

I know you're looking for information to help your pup, but now that it's already sick (and you don't know why), I would get it to the vet, to be safe. Vets are not miracle workers. They can't save pups that are brought in too late as a last resort, because the owner didn't want to spend the money. If anything, I would advise against feeding uncooked foods if only for this one reason.. You don't know if they are contaminated (they can be) and your pup could be sick from contaminated food, or worse.. it could be parvo. But, you don't know. I don't think that dry bag food is sufficient, these days, but it's going to be more consistent than raw foods.

I agree with Sunsilver. I've seen dogs eat some pretty disgusting stuff,  I friggin bet! They were probably eating the feces at the bottom of their CRATES considering
"64 German shepherds that were living in squalid conditions at the Gardena kennel. Most of the animals were kept in tiny crates that were filled with excrement. " & "Carson shelter manager said the problem with most of the dogs was, they were very hungry."
but it's anyone's guess what can happen when you feed contaminated raw food. Just dont feed them and dont risk foodborne contamination then right? Not only bacteria but their toxins can be present. Sitting in shit and piss all day= toxins Even if the dog can tolerate / survive it, I sure would hate to clean it up, afterwards.

I've found that you can feed a LOT of foods, Really? ALOT of food, "no food or water in most of the cages"
 even foods that most people would consider unfit for consumption,  by cooking either a long time in a crock pot or on high heat in a pressure cooker, with a strong vinegar added. The vinegar breaks down the mineral content in the bones and makes it safe, in reasonable amounts. Too much bone in the diet will result in a chalky white stool that's hard to pass, it's true. Raw bones are softer than cooked bones. Both are unsafe, IMO, because the raw bones can be contaminated by bacteria / toxins and the cooked bones can be hard, sharp, and can't break down in the stomach acids. You can solve both problems by cooking with the vinegar. I would not use beef bones.. only soft pork and lamb ribs and poultry or fish. After cooking you should be able to crumble them with your fingers. You get not only the bone meal but the marrow.

I ALWAYS run my fingers through home cooked food to make sure there is nothing in there that the dog cannot handle.
You must not have to run your finger through food often  considering  
"Carson shelter manager said the problem with most of the dogs was, they were very hungry."


Vinegar is also one of the real miracle disinfectants
They then found dogs in the backyard and in the garage living in horrible, filthy conditions.
"The ground was covered with feces over a foot high in some places."
you can find around the home, improves flavors of food and aids in digestion. In Europe, cooking with wine and vinegar was common practice from a long time ago, A long time ago? Like the last time you  FED your dogs? because it made a lot of foods safer in a time before refrigeration. This is due to acidity in wine and vinegar.

I've never yet had a dog turn up it's nose at old food prepared this way, UHHH Probably cause they were starving to death or get sick from it. In fact, they love it and seem to do very well on it.. better than dry dog food alone and damn sure better than no food at all and good economy.

I know you're looking for information to help your pup, but now that it's already sick (and you don't know why), I would get it to the vet, to be safe. Vets are not miracle workers. They can't save pups that are brought in too late as a

a last resort, because the owner didn't want to spend the money. Speaking from experience, how enlightening.
"An emaciated German shepherd was found in the front yard, the dog was in a small dog carrier. The animal was so ill that veterinarians had to euthanize it. "
If anything, I would advise against feeding uncooked foods if only for this one reason.. You don't know if they are contaminated (they can be) and your pup could be sick from contaminated food, or worse.. it could be parvo. But, you don't know. I don't think that dry bag food is sufficient, these days, but it's going to be more consistent than raw foods.
You're the last person anyone should take advice from. Here is the story for those who don't know it already
Matt
www.pet-abuse.com/cases/8106/CA/US/

Feeding garbage by DDR-DSH on 30 July 2009 - 16:07 DDR-DSH Posts: 710 Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 01:23 am Someone on another thread just made a reference to "feeding garbage", and I wanted to take the opportunity to write a bit on this topic, because it may be helpful to others. These are increasingly tough times for many people, and a lot of pets are being dumped in shelters by owners who say they cannot afford to feed them. This is completely unnecessary, in many cases. We may have all the food our own pets need, being thrown out in the trash every week. Most households throw out a surprising amount of food each month. Much of this can be converted to good, nutritious pet food, and save the owner a lot of money, as well as the lives of many pets.. if it is used properly. Let's put aside some of the snobbery, now. If you can afford to feed the best dog food, then consider yourself fortunate. The fact remains, however, that until about fifty years ago in the USA, commercial dog food was not commonly fed. Before that, it was hardly available, at all! Dogs have been nourished on refuse and scraps since the time of their earliest relationship with man. One theory says that out dogs' ancestors made their first acquaintences with humans when scavenging from garbage dumps. At any rate, a dog's stomach and digestive system is very different than that of a human, and they can or cannot eat various foods which we would or would not eat, based on those differences. The first notable difference is the lack of chewing molars, and saliva which is specialiized to break down carbohydrates into sugars. Humans have these characteristics, so we can utilize starchy roots, grains and vegetables better. Plant cell walls are very tough and must be mechanically crushed by chewing or pulverizing, or broken down with heat. Once the plant cell wall is broken down, dogs can also utilize the cell contents. Thus, dogs can benefit from diets which include grains, plant matter, and root starches, IF they are precooked. As a trade off, a dog's teeth are perfectly designed for chewing and breaking flesh and bone, and the saliva is designed to begin the breakdown of proteins by means of special enzymes, which we do not have. These enzymes (as well as the dog's strong digestive juices) can also break down and neutralize a certain amount of bacteria and bacterial toxins which may be present in the food.. SOME, but not all!!!! Dogs can suffer digestive upsets. Most will result in a loose, foul-smelling stool. Some may be fatal. This would depend on variables having to do with the kind of bacterial contamination, the degree of decomposition or contamination, and the age, condition, and relative immunity of the dog to those particular bacteria. Older or younger dogs may lack the necessary digestive juices and / or immune development to deal with food, gone bad. But basically, the dog is designed to be a scavenger and carrion eater, as well as a hunter. More..

Feeding garbage by DDR-DSH on 30 July 2009 - 16:07 DDR-DSH Posts: 710 Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 01:23 am I think we've all been grossed out from time to time by dogs' eating habits. Stool eating is common, but dogs seldom have access to anything in the way of rotted food. I have seen a dog lap up a bowl of fish guts and heads, rotted in the hot sun for a week or two, and suffer no ill effects. The dog got into the garden and ate what was supposed to be liquid fertilizer, and judging by the way it ate it, it was absolutely delicious!!! In fact, the ancient Romans made wide use of a fermented fish sauce called, "garum". And, humans have been eating rotted / fermented foods for millenia.. food of all kinds, including meat! The native people of Alaska used to make a delicacy from a rotted goose, allowed to freeze and thaw in about six cycles, in it's own skin. SO, even humans can eat fermented foods, but only if the bacteria active in the process are "friendly", and the process and product somehow controlled or tested. The result would be something similar to cheese. The idea is that by controlling the process, you can cultivate a friendly bacteria which will fend off toxic bacteria, and create a delicacy which is safe to eat. But, fermentation processes cannot be properly controlled by most people in most environments, and they take rather long times and specialized equipment, anyway. A faster way to convert "garbage" into useful food for our pets is with the use of long cooking and heat. This can be done easily at home with a slow cooker (crock pot) or a pressure cooker. The addition of a modest amount of ordinary vinegar will really help the process along. Vinegar, being an acid, will break down poultry bones and it is also an excellent disinfectant and anti-bacterial / bacteriostatic agent... which is why you can leave your relish, catsup, and mustard and mayonaisse out on the counter. Refrigeration will help to keep the product fresh, but the vinegar is what keeps it safe to eat. Ever wonder why you see pickled eggs and pig's feet out at room temperature on the deli counter? Vinegar! So, if heat breaks down plant walls, and makes the cell contents available to our dogs, we can also put in old greens and salad fixin's which we may no longer find palatable. I would not go so far as to use greens which are actually slimy or producing gasses, but the not-quite-fresh stuff which most of us would toss in the trash could be a nutritional supplement for our dogs. Certainly, you can throw in pasta, rice, potatoes, as well as old meat. And, if you use vinegar and cook for two days in a crock pot, you can make a nutritious soup stock and even mineral rich snacks from chicken bones, even turkey bones! Let the product cool a bit and test.. You should be easily able to break the bones in your fingers before feeding. Since about half of a whole, undressed chicken is what we would consider "waste", there is a LOT of food here! If you have any impulse to be respectful of the life / value of the chicken, or the cost to our environment, you should think about this form of recycling, for your own home. It's thrifty, nutritious, environmentally responsible, and you dogs will love it.

Feeding garbage by DDR-DSH on 30 July 2009 - 16:07 DDR-DSH Posts: 710 Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 01:23 am I think we've all been grossed out from time to time by dogs' eating habits. Stool eating is common, but dogs seldom have access to anything in the way of rotted food. I have seen a dog lap up a bowl of fish guts and heads, rotted in the hot sun for a week or two, and suffer no ill effects. The dog got into the garden and ate what was supposed to be liquid fertilizer, and judging by the way it ate it, it was absolutely delicious!!! In fact, the ancient Romans made wide use of a fermented fish sauce called, "garum". And, humans have been eating rotted / fermented foods for millenia.. food of all kinds, including meat! The native people of Alaska used to make a delicacy from a rotted goose, allowed to freeze and thaw in about six cycles, in it's own skin. SO, even humans can eat fermented foods, but only if the bacteria active in the process are "friendly", and the process and product somehow controlled or tested. The result would be something similar to cheese. The idea is that by controlling the process, you can cultivate a friendly bacteria which will fend off toxic bacteria, and create a delicacy which is safe to eat. But, fermentation processes cannot be properly controlled by most people in most environments, and they take rather long times and specialized equipment, anyway. A faster way to convert "garbage" into useful food for our pets is with the use of long cooking and heat. This can be done easily at home with a slow cooker (crock pot) or a pressure cooker. The addition of a modest amount of ordinary vinegar will really help the process along. Vinegar, being an acid, will break down poultry bones and it is also an excellent disinfectant and anti-bacterial / bacteriostatic agent... which is why you can leave your relish, catsup, and mustard and mayonaisse out on the counter. Refrigeration will help to keep the product fresh, but the vinegar is what keeps it safe to eat. Ever wonder why you see pickled eggs and pig's feet out at room temperature on the deli counter? Vinegar! So, if heat breaks down plant walls, and makes the cell contents available to our dogs, we can also put in old greens and salad fixin's which we may no longer find palatable. I would not go so far as to use greens which are actually slimy or producing gasses, but the not-quite-fresh stuff which most of us would toss in the trash could be a nutritional supplement for our dogs. Certainly, you can throw in pasta, rice, potatoes, as well as old meat. And, if you use vinegar and cook for two days in a crock pot, you can make a nutritious soup stock and even mineral rich snacks from chicken bones, even turkey bones! Let the product cool a bit and test.. You should be easily able to break the bones in your fingers before feeding. Since about half of a whole, undressed chicken is what we would consider "waste", there is a LOT of food here! If you have any impulse to be respectful of the life / value of the chicken, or the cost to our environment, you should think about this form of recycling, for your own home. It's thrifty, nutritious, environmentally responsible, and you dogs will love it.