Breaking Up Dog Fights - Page 1

Recently, two of my bitches got into a bitter fight. I was alone and feeling quite helpless to break them apart, although I did try and received a cut finger as a result. Finally, my son heard the commotion, came running and we each grabbed a bitch's hind legs and dragged them into their runs as suggested on the Leerburg Web site. I related the experience to a local trainer who advised me to keep a bottle with a 50/50 mix of ammonia and water on hand. He said to squirt the mixture onto the dogs' snout and they would let go of each other. So, I have two questions: Does anyone have experience with the ammonia/water solution? What other methods are advised for breaking up fights, especially if you are alone? Alex Cornella Johnsonburg, NJ

Keeping the dogs seperate will avoid the fight all together. Two dogs of the same sex should not be allowed free together. Especially if the two females are in heat, pregnant, or have a litter.

Amen! I agree with Neuen on this one. I have learned from that mistake. Thousands of $$$ later. As a matter of fact, dogs of the opposite or same sex are not out freely from that day on. It takes one grim lesson to teach you the consequences of this. Even dogs that have gotten along fine can later be HAVOC!!!

I have had several very serious dog fights, all when I was home alone, the worst involving bitches. I am a 5'1" woman and not the world's strongest person. Males will fight for territorial reasons and if there is an inseason bitch near-by; bitches do it for the sheer joy of trying to kill one another. I never tried ammonia and water, but have used a hose, bitter apple, vinegar and from my prospective it only seemed to make the fighters more determined to continue the battle. I think they blame the discomfort on their opponent. I don't think you can ever break up a real dog fight just be distracting the fighters. You need to somehow get them away from one another. If you're all alone and are lucky enough to be close to a kennel or a building to which you can drag them by the hind legs or tails, you might be able to throw one inside and close the door. Yes, I do know that trying to pull one dog off another by the tail could cause some damage, but it pales in comparison to what they will do to one another if it continues. I have learned to never grab a fighting dog by the scruff, never try to slip a lead over either dog and never try to put yourself between them no matter how big and strong you might think you are. I've been badly bitten trying to do both. The best thing to do is always be proactive and never give them a chance to have at one another again. Most bitches hold grudges and they will never get along. My sleddog friends just let them fight it out and sort out the pecking order in the teams. Most do not show these dogs; many are missing ears and have scarred muzzles. Another thing to remember is if you get bitten and have to have medical care, that dog bite will go into the bank of nationwide statistics that are used by insurance companies and other organizations. Best to just lie about the breed, call your GSD something like a Greater Alsatian Sheepherder. It will then be the only one of it's breed in the database and not used against us LOL.

NO ADVISE ON BREAKING UP DOG FIGHTS, BUT I KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE MANY DOGS AND LIKE THEM TO BE OUT AND RUN WITH EACH OTHER ON THE PROPERTY. WHAT THEY DO IN TIMES OF IN-SEASON ETC. IS MUZZLE ALL THE DOGS OUT TOGETHER. THIS WAY THEY CAN STILL RUN AROUND ETC. BUT IN CASE ANYTHING DOES HAPPEN, BREAKING THEM UP WITHOUT INJURY TO YOURSELF AND THE DOGS IS STILL POSSIBLE...THEY DO THIS AS A MATTER OF CONVENIENCE AS THEY ARE OLDER AND WISH TO EXERCISE THEIR DOGS BY LETTING THEM RUN, BUT CAN'T DO ONE AT A TIME DUE TO TIME AND HEALTH CONSTRAINTS SO NOT A BAD SOLUTION I GUESS.

I have heard to use Ammonia, lemon juice, vinegar and various other ineffective methods. All they do is piss the animals off and can even direct their aggression towards the person who they now feel is attacking them. NEVER try to get between fighting dogs. They can and will kill you trying to get to the other dog. A hose can work but it's a long shot. If you do try it try to get it into the mouth and nose. You want to deter them, not give them a bath. A broom handle into the mouth of one dog to break its hold can sometimes work. Have someone grab the dog with the hold broken by the hind legs only and get it out of there while you transfer the broom to the other dog's mouth to give it something to do. I have known people who have purchased catch poles and these are very effective it you can get it around a dog's neck. Just drag the dog off to a kennel and get the door shut without letting the other dog in. Hit it's head with the door if it's still in the way but try not to hurt him. NEVER hurt a dog during a fight. It's a good way to get killed. I would recommend not letting out dogs that show any sign of not liking one another together, as well as in season bitches, nursing or prenant bitches, and NEVER let intact males out together. That's a fight that can very likely end up with one dog dead. If your dogs are out together you should have someone with you to help in case a fight does break out. If noone is with you then you should invest in some soft muzzles. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than the vet bill to fix up injured dogs or the purchase of one or two new dogs that have killed one another. Make sure the muzzle leaves enough room for the dog to pant and drink. Eating is not necessary since you won't have it on all the time.

I had three bitches get into a fight. Naturally a pregnant one started it all. They were not penned together. The pregnant bitch unlocks the latches on a chain link fence and someone had left the gate closed but unlocked. I was alone and to make a long story short, I choked the most agressive one unconscious and drug her into a pen. By then the pregnant bitch was wanting mercy and I got the other dog off the pregnant bitch just before I left for the emergency room to get myself put back together. Only sure way to do it is to keep them seperated.

The less sound you hear from the dogs the worse the fight! If all you hear is the clicking of biting teeth and you are alone and the dogs do not involve you, stay the heck out of there! No dog is worth risking your own health. If you have help, the Leerburg advice is still the best. Prevention would be better still. Dogs should only be left to run together if you know them well enough, and you are clearly accepted as No1. That will usually prevent fights from happening. If dogs start a fight in your presence, that is a sure sign - you are not on top of that pack. Or the lesser ranked group is determining a clear beta dog that would eventually challenge you. If you go in to join the fight, and get hurt yourself (most likely) you expose your weakness even more. Very tricky situation. To make matters worse, the human reaction is to scream at the top of your lungs and try to intervene. You are now actually encouraging the fighting. One or both dogs feel supported and keep at it. If you as the alpha would step back and say: solve this yourself girls (takes a lot of nerve), the fighting might stop as quickly as it started. Really takes a lot of nerve. Training with an animal behaviourist for a year and thus being forced not to intervene at fighting situations really puts your nerves to the test and is a horrible feeling at first, but as long as the dogs are still talking, they usually settle their own differences quickly. Especially if no support comes from the owner. Some reading on dog behaviour and some classes might be helpful. Had I not had the opportunity to experience it first hand, and luckily had some video material to watch before my first encounter like this, I would have never had the confidence to let the dogs work it out. Hard to tell what sets dogs off. Dogs can communicate on levels we are not aware of. A glance is all that may be needed. Easy to miss for the owner. Dogs also have vocals that are beyond our hearing. A few basic things to consider: Males have their own structure and females have their own structure. Males and females rarely fight among each other for rank because they have not ranks to fight about. There is a male alpha and female alpha, and all the following ranks among each gender. Each gender settles their own scores among each other, has their own agendas. Fights between males and female would be over food or jealousy for the owners attention. Males will fight more frequently, but usually less severe, though it appears more severe to the human observer. Its a lot of huffing and puffing, but they still want a chance at the prize next time. The high ranks among the males are switched frequently, hence fighting being more common. The loosing males just go down in rank for a while but can stay in the pack. Females have a much stricter and more stable structure among themselves. The top female stays top and only vacates that spot for two reasons - she dies or leaves the pack because she was driven off. Hence fights among females are a lot more severe. Once females start fighting among each other chances are they will not stop and seek out every opportunity to go at it again! cont...

cont... Blackrooster, beware of that. If things are not settled now, you may well have a bunch of trouble ahead of you for some time to come. A look could be all it takes to set them off again. General rule of dog fights: The more noise you hear, the more frightening and impressive it may appear to the human spectator, but the dogs are still talking. This fight not so severe that it cannot be resolved. The dogs objective is to do a lot of damage and pull rank. Once its over everyone licks their wounds, live goes on. Once voice disappears, meaning there is no barking, growling, snarling, then all focus and energy is put into the fight and the outcome: there can be only one. The goal for this type of fighting is to eliminate this dog from the pack by death or to drive it off. Domestic dogs cannot leave the pack, so only one solution left. You have NO place in in such a fight! Absolutely none, don't even consider it for a second! Once dogs have fought like this, the conflict cannot be resolved and will always continue because of both dogs are still present the objective of the fight has not been met. These dogs need to be permanently separated if you somehow got them to stop fighting. Beware of this if a dog ever challenges you and you ever get bitten! No sound = you are in very, very, very deep doodoo.

hi -- be careful of the rank order thing -- this is not as it always seems to be -- a lot of what is stated and written about rank order is hogwash/not entirely correct --- first this implies that a position of rank is static -- this is a falsehood -- a rank postion in dog pack[s] is dynamic postion .. meaning that it at times and situations it can and does often vary --- [ you can be alpha .. but put a female coming into heat next to two males --- HA ... nothing to do with rank between you and the two males !! . an if they fight well ..... did you ever see two males fight ??... even the most submissive male towards you can be worked into such a frenzy that as far as he is concearned .. you aren't even there !! ].. the difficulty with all this dog stuff ... is that we forget the innate instiuncts of the animals and just try to relate everything as dogmatic -- watch a dog pack / not the wolvews bit / you can see postion has to do with social alliances -- the dog that appears to be the so called alpha is really the voted leader by the others as the alliances have developed ---- but that can change given the environment and the context --- or if one other significant canine in the pack [ to help keep others in line ], is absent for a time , then you will see many a so-called alpha drop in the rank / position relative to the others . ______ bottom line -- be carful with dog packs and don't think if you are a very strong , high ranking , enforcable leader you can always deter battles .