training tips on watch me and off leash heeling - Page 1

Hello to all, Iam a newbe on these boards.I would like to know if someone please!!! has some advice on how to keep my 15 month old g.s.d.to watch me when I don't have the ball in my hand ? he is ball crazy ,will not work for food.When I put the ball on my chest he will watch me like a hawk ,but when I put the ball away he looks at me sometimes but most of the time he just looks stright ahead or starts to sniff the ground .This goes for off leash heeling also, he stays with me at my leftside with ball on chest ,but when I dont have the ball he will stay with me for a while then he starts to lose intrest and starts to wander from my side or starts to sniff the ground ?? any advice will be very help full..Thanks

The trainer at my club uses this method. poke a hole in the ball he likes and thread a scarf through it. tie it around your neck so you can pull it off easily. while you are heeling draw attention to it (tap it) so he's looking up to you. when he's giving you good attention fling it off. only reward when he's lookin up at you. When you can't use the ball, like in competition, just wear the scarf. Move your arms freely while heeling and fling it off during the same kind of arm pumping motion. Good luck, Melnaie

as a handler/trainer for many years, I believe that having the dog work for food or a ball he is not working for you. I have always trained with just praising them after they have done a task for you. making a big deal when he/she does good teaches a dog they have done good for you and the reward is just praise and letting him be a dog. When you are on the streets working, you want the dog focused on work, food or a ball becomes distracting. After a short period of obedience,taking them away from the area you just worked him in and playing fetch with the ball is great.This gives them the idea of work first play later. In your case I would lose the ball and put a nylon choke collar on him and give him some light corrections,but constantly praise him there after while he is heeling. (Heel "goodboy") If he goes to sniff tell him no or no sniffing.when he stops sniffing tell him good boy. They get the picture. You might feel putting him back on lead you are going backwards but sometimes this is the case when you need to fix a problem. Mix it up when he is heeling and put him in a down or sit as you walk........this keeps him focused on you and not the ground. I am not saying that food and a ball is really bad way of training but it does not get the dog to work for you as much as he is working to get a treat or the ball from you. The post before this with the ball around the neck trick.....ummm no comment......high drive dog off leash.....be careful!

Melnaie,Thank you for your tip ,I will give it a try !! But during competition ,wearing the scarf wouldn't that be considered handler help? Iam trying to go for my Bh but this is what is holding me up !! he does everything else fairly good !! ..Thanks

Biv1996..Thank you. I will keep this in mind ...Al

<>> Time for a new trainer. Rather difficult to wear a scarf if trial day is a hot day in the sun. here's a simple exercise that involves TEACHING the Focus. For the Foundation do as you have been doing with the ball. Let the dog see the ball and keep him focused for a few paces of heeling. As he gets better with the focus let him see you put the ball under your left arm. Then do a couple steps of heeling while he is focused on you, then lift your left arm and release the ball. When you are able to heel more paces and keep the dog focused on you then introduce turns etc. This way the dog expects the ball to appear as a reward for focusing on you rather than staying focused on the ball. Later WHEN and ONLY WHEN you have taught him to focus then we add distractions. At this time when he looks away he gets a correction and when he stays focused he gets rewarded. Teach then Train then Proof. Good Luck, Uwe

Whatever happened to just training a dog to do something,just because you want him to do it? I hate to see a dog being baited to do something be it ball,tug or food.Eye contact is easy enough to get and maintain with a 6 lead and prong collar. The only reward a good dog needs is it's handlers praise.Leave the toys at home for playtime,they do not belong on the training field Uwe said it all in the last part of his post when he looks away he gets a correction and when he stays focused he gets rewarded. Eye contact between dog and handler at ALL times,no exceptions,none. anything less then this is met INSTANTLY with a correction or corrections untill desired eye contact is made and held which of course is met with verbal praise and a pet or two down the dogs head There should be no bond greater then a man and his dog,if he is choosing a tennis ball over the praise of it's owner/handler does one not find this rather odd? Something to ponder,best of luck, Charlie

Charlie Ivory, I agree with you somewhat. Problem is most high level Shepherds don't have the willingness to please the owner like they had 20 -25 years ago. I see more and more of them bred to be crazy ball/prey drive dogs for top competition. I try to balance it to find something the dog wants, then use it as a reward to bring out the most in the dog. You can definitly use just praise for basic obedience. But when you are competing at the higher levels you need the dog to be consistant. So you build crazy drive for the toy or whatever to keep the dog focused on you and compulsion when he is not. One word about compulsion/corrections, I immediatly give excitable praise or ball reward after the correction the instant that I have my dogs attention. This way as time progresses the dog will actually go up in drive when corrected rather than go down in drive. Uwe

I meant a hankercheif not a scarf, sorry. VHDOOSEK9, to each their own my friend. There's a million different ways to train, it all depends on the dog. I'm no expert, just trying to share some different methods. 38thscoutdogs- I do not believe it would be considered handler help, but it depends on the Judge, I don't think they'd know why you are wearing it.

I do agree Charlie...I don't like food or a ball rewards. They work to please you if you give them plenty of praise and bond with them. I want the dogs focus on me at all times when working. I don't think enough people have understanding when it comes to training. What dog won't sit for a treat?...Have your dog sit for you because that is what you want him to do. Changing your tone of voice when training is the key and timing the command with a correction.