Would you breed... - Page 3

Thank you for all the feedback.

Prager, thank you very much for the x-rays.  My shepherd isn't old enough to have her hips certified yet, so I have no x-ray's of  my own to put up.  As soon as I get them done I will probably be putting them up here.  I'm just being paranoid.

Thank you,
Haley

fair yes, borderline or mild no.

Over here in Belgium and Germany the people who process the hip and Elbow gradings and i might add the same person does only set of a dog the Hips or the elbows not one person for the both hips and elbows of one Dog
Now these experts are known as Professors, and to get the grade of Professor i would imaging that they know what they are looking for or at,
 Yet time and time again people disagree with there findings of what results they give, Now let me say this if anyone who disagrees with the findings of these experts, if they give there dog  just below breedable hips etc, or just passable and the owner disagrees with there findings, How would these same people feel if they were given the top grade of hips and Elbows would they say anything negative about the results of the Belgian or mostly the SV system then
I think not
If you take your dog to a reputable place to have the Xrays done they always show you the owner the xrays and they will give there opinion of what they see and they too are experts if you take them to the right place but they say there opinions ate just theres to give e you the owner an idea of what they think.
Now if you disagree with the findings of the one who took the Xrays ask for them to be done again then you cannot really disagree with an experts opinion from the SV etc
For any one person on this board is not a qualified expert on the subject unless they have the papers to show it, and what they say or disagree with is not relevant
Steve

Yes, provided the dog appeared sound in movement and had everything else. My 14 1/2 yr old GSD was fair at 2 years old, I spayed her because "there was no way I would breed a Fair dog" back then. When she had he back and Hips redone at 12 (because she now has Spondylosis of the spine) the Orthopedic Vet couldn't believe OFA gave her a Fair rating and said he though they would still pass with a Fair or Good so they were full of crap. OFA says Fair rating should expect some bone change later in life. Never happened with my dog and this changed my mind on the subject completely.

I would however be very selective as to who I bred her to and be sure everything behind him was Good/Excellent or A Normal. One of the dogs I imported after 12 months who was A Fast Normal came back at 24 months as Fair OFA so that too changed my mind. I would never breed a "NZ" rated dog no matter who he/she was. That is below Fair in my experience and simply wouldn't go there.

even OFA excellent's and Good's can produce just as many, if not more in some cases, puppies with HD.  its always a gamble with a litter, best thing you can do is study the pedigree's and history of the dogs and close relatives and make the best educated decision on breeding partners.

Another thing to think about is that Stormfront's Brawnson was OFA Fair he also was a HORRIBLE hip producer!  His ZW at one time was 103 and I know I counted up how many progeny he produced with very poor hip results.  Not just that but he only produced a couple of nice working dogs that were TRUELY nice!

Fair is fine with me if there is consistant offspring that have passing hips.....Brawnson's hip production in my opinion was not good enough.

Vickie
www.PowerHausKennels.com

For a female IF pedigree and hips all around in the dog's pedigree are clear, and the dog is particularily good for breeding I would consider breeding her... would also do an eval on as many as possible of her pups @ 6-9 months... definately before breeding her again, to see what she's throwing. If the pup's hips are good then Cautionary breeding to studs with good hips would be a go for me. 

As far as a Male.. I'd be much more criticical as there are so many males out there with excellent pedigrees AND good hips. Males who become popular @ stud can produce many more litters/year than a bitch does, so a poor hip or throwing bad hips would have a larger impact on the overall genetic pool.  (I'm not excusing females just being harder on males.)

OFA Fair = no sign of hip dysplasia.

What would be the reason not to breed a bitch who is certified free of HD.

Wow, Mr. Held,

You have such class!  Sure, Brawnson may have produced some nice working dogs, although I have had 1 in my kennel (a brawnson daughter) and I have a close friend that has a son.  The daughter's working ability was very weak!  The son that belongs to a friend of mine is a nerve bag!  Sooo, I must not know anything! 

However, this discussion is about breeding dogs with OFA fair hips.  And here are the hard facts on that!  I am sorry that you can not deal with the facts.....you must be either a former brawnson owner or progeny owner.  But whatever you are you ARE indeed a low class fool!

Oh, by the way, here are the hip stats for Stormfront's Brawnson:

44 of his Progeny have been OFAed.

ELBOWS:

26 OF 44 dogs had elbows done:

25 passing

1 DEGENERATIVE JOINT DISEASE I UNILATERAL RIGHT

HIPS:

41 OF 44 had hips done:

1 Excellent

32 Good

8 Fair

2 Mild Unilateral

1 Mild

1 Moderate

NOTE: One of these dogs has both DJD and Mild HD!

Oh, brawnson also has a daughter with a ZW of 113! 

Ya know it's a real pitty when we can't have a discusison or debate on this database!

Vickie
www.PowerHausKennels.com