Nuetering a not-so-friendly dog. - Page 1

Hi everyone.

I just made an appointment to have my 2 year old male working line GSD nuetered and OFA'd. I'm worried about leaving him unattended at the vets, he does not take kindly to strangers touching him and I'm sure he will be hostile if he is alone with them (without me present). He is a very large dog and can easily overpower the female vet techs. When I'm present and he is under command, he is fine and very polite but is by no means friendly....controlled? Yes. Friendly? No.
I do not allow strangers to touch him for this reason and usually have him muzzled in high traffic areas (not because he is a loose cannon, but because some people are idiots and like to allow their children to run up to strange dogs, a muzzle seems to be a good detterent, people assume he is not friendly and stay out of our way). 

The vet wants me to bring him in early in the morning, leave, then later in the morning they want to sedate him, check vitals..etc. and the actual procedure will occur a bit later after that. After the procedure the vet would like him to stay overnight to make sure he is okay from the anesthetic, check the incision and then have me pick him up early the next day. I expressed my concerns over this, I just don't think it will be fair or safe to leave him alone for that long around strange people, especially if he is in pain. The vet tech told me that if he is doing okay and comes out of the anesthetic I can take him later on the day of the procedure. Even still, I don't know how I feel about him "waking up" alone. What should I do? Has anyone else had to leave an "aggressive"(such a nasty word) dog at the vets for a period of time?

 

Thank you for your time and response.

 

 

You might be very suprised what your dog is like when your not around, especially with the right person.
I think they were taught this in vet school 101, how to deal with aggressive and or dangerous animals.
How'd he get this way in the first place?
And who do you think he's gonna blame when he looks down and sees his nuts are gone?

I don't think you have anything to worry about at all............:)
Why are you having him neutered?

 Since you will not hear this often I am compelled to say my bit at risk of back lash.
I do not condone spaying and neutering. It is often harmful to the dog's hormonal balance. Females develop often estrogen and thyroid imbalance which leads to many problems (Gaining water and weight and the dog probably feels like a women with such imbalance. Like a hell.... except dogs can not complain. Male neutering is less harmful but  also causes problems. Lack of testosterone will cause the dog to gain weight and that leads to joint problems and heart attacks.
Limiting the diet and exercises does not work.  Neutering your dog may or may not lower his aggression since the brain changes had been mostly done (by testosterone).  Also Male like yours may become due to loss of sexual identity become more aggressive to female dogs on top of natural dominance aggression to male dogs.
 Aggression of your dog is most likely environmental and caused by you isolating the dog from other people or by not socializing him properly.  Even now it probably could be easily cured by proper training where you actually establish leadership position (as far as your dog is concerned) and reconditioning of the dog to see strangers as source of pleasure and fun rather then threat and fear.  Also even if you keep the dog as is , personality wise, you can always partially tranquilize him before you go to vet.
 I could help you with the training  if you contact me. Free of charge over the phone.
Prager (Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com

Like Moons said, your dog may act very differently once you are gone. After many years of vet-teching, my experience is dogs that may be aggressive and defensive when their owners are around, relax and are no problem on their own.  Even dogs that act "cage aggressive", once you have a leash on them, they are fine.  You can always tell them if the dog gives them any trouble, to call you and you'll come down and hold him for his sedation.

Vets deal with "aggressive dogs" on a regular basis and it would surprise you to find out just how "un-aggressive" some of these guys are when the owner is not present!  If he really is that aggressive with people then there are many drugs available that will help "put him in a happy place!"  With regard to wanting to be there when the dog wakes up from surgery, you don't!  He would not know if you were there or not as pain medication is usually administered after the surgery so that they wake up comfortable and they wouldn't know you from anyone else.  Many dogs, as with people, when waking up from anesthesia can carry on quite a bit, not from pain but from the delusional state they are in until the drugs wear off. It would be very upsetting to you to see if this were to happen.   If you are neutering him because he will be a "pet only" and you had planned on it anyway, then so be it.  If you are neutering him because you think it will suddenly "fix" his aggression, then think again.  You would be much better off taking the kind offer Prager (Hans) has made to you and working with him.  JMHO

 i would just like to add the suggestion that before surgery you ask the vet to do a simple test to make sure the dog has no clotting problems. My son had his beloved 5 year old Pit Bull  neutered last month and he died 5 days later because unbeknownst to us he had hemophilia type B and his blood would not clot. A simple test before surgery  called the oral mucosal bleeding test would have shown that the dog had a clotting problem and we would not have had the surgery.. The test is performed by making a standardized incision on the inside of the lip. Our vet told us that most vets don't  suggest this test , unless the dogs has shown sypmtoms because clotting disorders are rare except in Dobermans where our vet will not do surgery  without the test. She said clotting problems also happens in Shpeherd  (Von Willebrand;s disease), but not as often as Dobies. Our was the first Pit Bull she has seen in her 27 years as a vet with it.  I will never have surgery on a dog without the pre op test.

Thank you all for the advice.

I'm not nuetering him due to his aggression. He is not aggressive, though many people with strictly companion dogs would describe him as such. Many workingline folks have met him and they would not at all call him aggressive, he just doesn't care to be petted and cooed at by strange people. Like I said, he is very controlled and well mannered in the presence of strangers when under command. I guess a better way to put it would be, he is not a dog that seeks out or appreciates attention from people he does not know and will respond to such mannerisms in a way that the general public sees as "aggressive" (like give off a bark).I have socialized him thoroughly as a pup, taken him to trainers, he is well bred, goes everywhere with me and is a very happy dog. He just doesn't like people a whole lot. Because of this I take serious precautions when we are in public. It doesn't take much for a dog to be classified as "vicious" around here and for this reason I take training very seriously. He has very reliable OB and like I said, he is under control. All of that aside though, he is a pretty intimidating dog and many people do not understand canine body language, nor know how to act in the presence of a serious dog. Many people escalate situations unknowingly, this is what worries me about leaving him unattended. It's not him I'm worried about, it's the people that will be surrounding him. He would never bite anyone unprovoked, but I think from the dogs perspective the described situation (at the vet clinic) may warrant a bite in his mind. Afterall, he will be alone, with strange people holding him and proding him(exaggerating here a bit) in a tiny room with no escape. He will not be able to go into avoidance and I worry that he will do what's natural and bite. Perhaps I'm over thinking the sitiuation. I just love my dog and his safety and wellbeing is my ultimate concern, I would be devasted if a bite occured. I know how he is when I'm not present, he can be pretty nutty. Screeching like a banshee(seperation anxiety, but only if he see's me leave) and gets P-O'd when someone other then myself or partner gives a command. Some people have been able to manage him just fine, but these are working enthusiasts who have experience with this type of dog. They all seem to like him! 

I may be going into too specific of details, I don't want to confuse people at all. His tempermant is ideal to me, I would not change a single thing about him. We have a very good relationship together and we are always striving to achieve more and more in our training sessions.

I'm nuetering him because A) I'm not a breeder and could never be a breeder, not my cup of tea and not why I bought my dog. B) he is cryptorchid and not altering him can increase his risk of cancer. C) I don't want any accidental breedings to occur in his lifetime.

I think I will talk to the vet again and explain to her that I would feel more comfortable being at the clinic while they sedate him and while he wakes up. I wont ask to be in the same room but being at the clinic would give me a better piece of mind. I'm more worried about the whole "overnight" thing. He has never stayed overnight anywhere unless I have been by his side. I guess all I can do is cross my fingers and hope he "wakes up" fast so I can bring him home the same day. If he does have to stay overnight I think I will rent a hotel room and ask the vet to phone me immediately when they arrive at the clinic in the morning so I can be present (at least in the same building) when they attempt to handle him. Is that unreasonable?  I worry so much about him, I just want him to be as comfortable as possible for this ordeal. I probably sound like a crazy dog person!

Shepherdpal: Would that fall under the same category of pre-anesthetic screening? I have requested to h

Here are your reasons and my rebuttals. JMO
I'm neutering him because A) I'm not a breeder and could never be a breeder, not my cup of tea and not why I bought my dog.
If you are not a breeder, then do not breed him. You will alter his temperament  and life in dramatic and sometimes negative way if you do.

B) he is crypt-orchid and not altering him can increase his risk of cancer.
 If he is a crypt-orchid than you have no choice. If he is a monorchid (one (1) undescended testicle) then ask the vet to remove just the undescended one. This should have been done no later then at one year of age.

C) I don't want any accidental breedings to occur in his lifetime.
 Supervise the dog properly.
Just an advice and my opinion:)
Prager (Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com

hepherdpal: Would that fall under the same category of pre-anesthetic screening? I have requested to h


Most likely but just ask to be sure if he is being tested for clotting problems.

I don't think you are a crazy dog person. You are just doing your best to make sure all goes well your dog. My 4/5 month GSD has only one testicle down and it is doubtful the other will some down so I will have him neutered at 18 months to decrease the risk of cancer. Our vet likes to neuter between 4-6 months but I want to wait until he has had more time to develop. I am also going to insist on a pre surgery ultra sound to find where the undescended testicle is so they do not have to cut around looking for it. I am probably the crazy dog person!

No Sayth, the clotting time is a separate test, but easy enough to do while the pre-anesthetic screen is running.