Show quality - Page 1

Tell me something,  define a show quality puppy.  Should a breeder who has been in the field for many years not know what a show quality puppy is.  So a person spends that amount of money on a puppy only to find that it has hip dysplasia at a very very young age and also genetic problems as well.  So tell me what a show quality puppy is.

Show quality means thats all the dog was bred for and you have no idea if the pup will grow up to be a show winner or not.
Very expensive and not what a GSD is all about.
Nothing else is important, itsa show dog.

Kats,
It may get messy in here.  This topic has proven to be a can of worms in the past.  Good luck.
Windy

I don't think there is any one answer.  Everybody has a different definition based on their experiences.

Show quality means expensive, and with no 100% sure outcome. lol. I spoke with quite few SL breeders and the more we got to know eachother the more openly they start to talk. Few of them agree on one thing, they price the pup based on his looks at the time and they will tell you as well is shot in the dark, but some people are so obsessive with perfection they will be willing to spend extra. Genetic problems thats breeding issue. this is what you get one you start breeding for looks rather than total package ;) but that's just my opinion. Plus keep in mind honest SL breeders will put health and temperament before anything else, but they are far inbetween.

In all fairness I could say the same thing about working dog breeders advertising  hard dogs, dual purpose dogs, best working lines.
Yet another bred for one purpose animal.
It will always be my opinion that narrow minded breeding hurts the breed.
Let er buck.

show quality means, with right nutrition and training the pup has a good chance of making its championship.  no disqualifying faults. nothing more and nothing less. 

but young pups are a crap shoot. 

you CAN NOT GUARANTEE SHOW QUALITY ON A YOUNG PUPPY!  any breeder that does is not being truly honest with themselves or you!  if anyone is serious about showing, they need to spend the extra money and buy a 6 month old or older pup who has its adult teeth in, been x-rayed hips and elbows, already started in the ring  ect.

Show quality means nothing really at the age most people buy and sell pups. What one hopes for, and sometimes can begin to see at an early age is correct structure, good pigment and ears that appear capable of standing. One looks for correct placement of the upper and lower jaw, but that can change as will dentition (which is not going to develop very quickly anyway). One hopes for, based on the parents and the immediate ancestry, good joint health and general good health, but even that can go wrong. One looks for two testicles in male pups. I also look for overall impression the pup makes in whether it looks male or female. And temperament for me and natural sociability and some inkling of drives present is also important. When someone says "show quality" it is a judgment based sometimes on years of experience, and more often than not it is a judgment made by someone who has no clue. Add to that an owner about to be who has no clue and it is a situation that can easily go sour. Most people think that a good GSD just has four legs and two ears and that is all it takes. Of course, there are many other things I look for. 

I would disagree with those here who say show lines are crap. They are not. I own both show lines and working lines, and in my opinion, among the best pups, there are not huge crevasses between them as some would have one believe. Often what happens is people buy pups for looks and they really do not know what is and is not correct, or what to do with the pup early on to best help the pup develop. 

When someone says a pup is "pet quality", assuming they know what they are talking about, what they are saying is that there is some fault in the dog. Perhaps an ear is too large or the leather too heavy so that it is obvious early on that the ear is not going to stand. Or perhaps the pup is really fine boned or washed out in pigment, or has too much white on its chest and/or paws. Maybe the male only has one testicle or the tail is too short or curly. These things, of course, do not mean the dog might not make a wonderful dog and companion for someone.

If you have ever been to a show, an SV style show, you hear pups getting different ratings. Early on the pups get rated thus:

VP = in German "vielversprechend", meaning "very promising"

P = in German "versprechend", meaning "promising"

LP = in English, simply means "less promising"

What does all this mean? In the end, it means nothing. A VP pup can easily turn out to be an average GSD when judged against the breed standard. In fact, most pups who have been shown are shown up to age 12 months, or perhaps even 23 months and that is the last one sees of them because the owner did nothing to train the dog for Schutzhund titles.

When one says a pup is "show quality" it is a little bit of salesmanship and possibly, with experienced and well trained breeders who know what is and is not correct according to the breed standard (and most do not), it is someone simply making a judgement. The judgement may or may not be correct. This is why a buyer should know a lot more than almost all buyers do. If one wants a pet/companion and does not intend to show, then who cares what the dog is called as far as terminology is concerned, or what it looks like. One looks for good health, sociability and temperament. If one is looking for a pup they think will propel them into the thick of things in big shows, here or abroad, then simply pay big bucks as some relatively "joanna come latelys" have done and be prepared to spend a lot of money. Unfortunately, a lot of people spend big bucks and get told a pup is "show quality" when in fact, the dog is not.

A good eye for the breed standard takes a lot of study to develop and that takes dis