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by RDH on 09 March 2009 - 15:03
Any how so I had an issue with the exchanging process. 2 managers ended up lecturing for 45mins on the use of prong collars. She was upset on how i had the small prong collar and it was placed on the dog. From what i was told and read about the prong collar it is to be placed up to the neck of the dog not the base of the neck. She wanted to say that it still needs 2 finger room between neck and collar. If you do that then the collar would slide down to the base of the neck. Then you would have to continue adjusting the collar to the top of the neck prior to correction. So then we get the medium size prong collar which in my opinion is extremely too big for my dog. I need to remove 4 links to make it fit snuggly. Then the manager is still up set about that because she thinks it should still be loose.
2nd issue with the prong collar i was told it should be used as a sharp pop as a correction vs the one manager said it should be a pull. I explained to her nicely if you pull then it will make my dobie want to pull more vs you doing a sharp pop. and from there it went down hill. A customer ended up budding in bringing his senior shepherd mix over to demostrate how the prong should be used and where it should be placed. I disagreed with him because the collar was at the base of the dogs neck and he snapped it. So what it boils down to is that i got a 45min lecture in front of the store on how to use prong collars otherwise its considered ABUSE. I felt stupid being there because all the customers were focusing on me and my dog. Everytime she said the word ABUSE made me feel embrassed. I told her straight up that many trainers don't think that people should go to petsmart for obedience in my opinion because they are too soft and only use the same routine for all dogs. When each dog is an individual.
Can you guys let me know from what i explain did i do wrong or do you need more info?
by Rezkat5 on 09 March 2009 - 16:03
OMG, what idiots!
You are correct in the placement and the size for your Doberman! That's the size that I would use for a Dobie. I use the mediums on m GSD's to be able to get through the fur. The collar is not doing what it's supposed to by being lose.
I think that I would have just returned the thing and gone elsewhere telling them to F off!
I guess that's Pet Smart for you. Morons!
Kathy
by Rezkat5 on 09 March 2009 - 16:03
And yes it should be a pop and not a pull.
by ocoey on 09 March 2009 - 16:03
by sueincc on 09 March 2009 - 16:03
With my dog, I use the heaviest weight pinch collar. I feel the weight of the collar adds to the correction, in any event I am satisfied with the correction it gives my GSD. I do know people who use the micro pinch and are happy with the correction it gives their dogs for the reasons you mentioned. I would never in a million years accuse those who like the smaller pronged pinch of abusing their dogs because they obviously aren't.
I will disagree with one thing: Most good trainers don't dislike Petco training classes because they are too soft. Most good trainers, whether they train with clickers, motivational methods only, corrections, compulsion or a little of everything discourage people from going to PetCo for training because Petco trainers are just plain bad at everything. They have no clue how to train dogs. I don't know if this is because they are forced to comply with certain Petco guidelines or if they are just new to dog training and think this is their foot in the door, or if they are just so inept this is the only way anyone would pay them to train. Whatever the reason or excuse, steer clear and tell everyone who asks you to steer clear too.
As for your particular pinch collar, I use Herm Sprenger pinch collars. They are better quality than Petco crap & you are less likely to have issues with bent prongs and collars popping off, though it is not unknown to happen with good collars, it is a much rarer occurence.
EDITED TO ADD: I kept saying Petco but meant PetSmart. Actually they are both equally as bad.
by GSDtravels on 09 March 2009 - 16:03
On top of everything else, if used the way they suggested, or should I say, INSISTED, it could harm the dog. The prongs are supposed to pinch, not jab. If loose, the prongs not laying tight against the skin, they are sticking straight out, the prongs can go through the skin and actaully harm the dog, especially if there is constant pressure on the collar. Yes, you were right and they are idiots!!! When a dog is damaged because of incorrect use, they will blame the collar and yell that it's a torture device!
I do go to PetSmart to purchase some items but they are the last ones I'd take any advice from, even for their own products.
by hodie on 09 March 2009 - 16:03
I concur with what others here have already told you. Do yourself a favor and find a different place to do business! These two managers are ignorant.
As pointed out, much of what these stores sell anyway is crap. The training done in the stores in my area is terrible. I actually watched a session recently and left with an upset stomach. They don't have a clue and someone who is clueless teaches the next clueless person, perpetuating piss poor training techniques (let alone providing any type of real understanding about dog temperaments and behaviors).
Prong collars, like all training tools, can be used incorrectly and/or abused. Based on what you write, it sounds like you do know how to use it correctly. For what it is worth, I see many people coming here who use them and use them ineffectively because they use them incorrectly.
by happyday on 09 March 2009 - 17:03
I wouldn't loose my sleep over what some petstore idiot advised you. I am sure the hammering you got is what caused you pain. I always tell new members at my schutzhund club - that you get alot of advise - and you have to pick and choose what you listen to.
Prong collars are a training tool - they are to be snug around the neck - just behind the ears. The size of the collar is a factor in the correction factor. The bigger the link the less correction - the smaller the link - the more correction.
-If you have a soft dog - you don't need a lot of correct - thus a larger prong.
-If you have a dog that needs more correction - a smaller link.
Correction should be short and to the point - a quick pop - then followed by a good when they conform to the correction. The is the whole point of the correction. With petsmarts advise - they say you it should be lower - that is the strongest part of a dog - their suggestion is stupid and would not be anything but like a little kid poking at an adult for 10 minutes - just irritating but not a correction.
You know how to use the collar - correctly - it is obvious - I to use Sprenger - and the crap you get at Petsmart - I am sure the manufacture of their prong collars don't give those little kids at petsmart-mgr included-a lesson on proper use of the collar....
by RDH on 09 March 2009 - 17:03
You've bought up my day. I was feeling grabby today because of what happened last night. I'm glad I got it out and got some advice from ya'll. Well i felt they were attacking me because of the smaller collar and that they couldn't fit too fingers in the collar.Its not tight but snuggly. Anyhow I got the medium so I guess I better go back and return it and go else where to get better quality training collar.
I appreciate all your inputs...i heard petsmarts training is crap anyways (people's personal opinion although I did go there when she was 7mo for obedience class that she already had all the commands down...and guess what they were the one who recommended the prong collar GO FIGURE!!! Now they tell me they don't use them or allow them in class there. They recommend the clicker)
by Pharaoh on 09 March 2009 - 17:03
The previous pinch collar I had came apart several times. Not reliable.
Michele
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