Opinions on German SV show judges?

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by Championl on 06 February 2009 - 04:02

Hi all, I'm getting deeper into the world of showing dogs (still quite new though) and was wondering if anyone has information about different SV judges? I went to my first local show a little over a month ago (in the U.S.) and it was SO biased I was shocked, in favor of 3 people and all their dogs (my dog didn't do do so well, because the judge favored a certain other 'type'of dog to the extreme). I'm learning that the politics side will probably often make a big impact on show placings, but are there at least SOME judges out there who don't play favorites (with the owners/kennels/handlers..)? Any judges who give FAIR and honest placements? Is it just a game of politics that I have to work my way into if I want to ever hope to win big at a show?

I've been told that winning big (I'm talking V 1-5 at a big regional show or VA/top V at a SIeger show) is almost impossible for someone new with one dog and no experience, because I don't have the political side in my favor. Any truth to that? Any hope for me and my one dog? :)

Back to the judge question... any opinions on/info about the judging styles of SV judges Klaus Gothe or Otto Korber-Ahrens?

I guess the point of this post is to see if I should keep trying harder and harder and not give up, or if showing is really such a rigged deck in the favor of the "big names". Thanks in advance; this post is not meant to be offensive or point fingers, I'm just feeling a little defeated and don't want to give myself false hope, or quit if there's any chance at success in the future! :)

by waleed on 06 February 2009 - 04:02

its drama if you dont have lots of mony and you hvave to be politc, and the american need to wake up.

wleed

by Uber Land on 06 February 2009 - 06:02

I would just go out and have fun with my dog. a V title is still a V title and you should be proud of it, whether you were first in line, or a few places back.

there is alot of truth to a small time breeder or inexperienced person not making the big placements at a show. unless your dog is from a popular kennel or theres a big name on its papers, you generally don't do as well. you can do better at a regional show than you would say at the sieger show.

ex: a friend of mine had a bitch go high V at the last sieger show, when the bitch should have been in the VA class. another breeder brought it to the judges attention that her mother didn't have a german koer, but a koer from Spain. the judge had to call my friend up and tell him that she had to be culled from the VA class. yes it was a rule, and rules should be followed, but I think it could have been handled differently as the female was very worthy of a VA title.

in a fair world, it wouldn't be like this, may the best dog win, but this world isn't always fair and money and politics play a major role at dog shows. this is one reason why I don't show much. it just isn't the gsd ring or SV style shows either. it is in every breed, every show venue and even some working trials. though most working trials are pretty consistent with each dog getting the points and place it deserves.

by Abhi on 06 February 2009 - 07:02

I will agree with you Uber Land but this is not the case of one country or a certain show, problems are with the German judges. You can see for yourself that there is a lot of partial judgement being passed by these people around the world, it may be the US or Pakistan anywhere in Asia or India. We have read a lot of posts on this very site where people are venting their anger on these judges and the organisers, mind you these judges are never called again to these countries.

In the past Germans as a community were a respected lot and they were welcomed anywhere in the world, these judges seem to create a wholly new picture of a degraded, biased and a corrupt people that are a blot on the whole German Nation.

It is time that people took recognition of these facts and stop requesting these judges from judging in their countries. This plague has to stop.

We have also seen that the very officials who run the shows are a very corrupt and insensitive people, very often you will see that a certain person with influence will have a very mediocre dog placed in a very high position or a sponsor, Chairman, Secretary or their sidekicks will always have dogs in the front regardless of their performance or conformation.

It is useless debating and writing these things on the online forums since the outcome is a big 'NOTHING' , but rather take things into your own hands and do whatever that first comes to your mind even throwing your shoes at them should not be ruled out. You should stop entering your dogs at such shows and as the numbers dwindle the organizers will understand themselves that they have to change their policies.

by sv1983 on 06 February 2009 - 08:02

before you dare to criticize the integrity of the judges everybody should question in an honest and self-critical way first the quality and condition of their dogs, the quality of the preperation/training and finally the performance of the dog in the show. if you are still able to summarize that your dog was the best in class but did not win than you can start questioning the intergrity of a judge ...

by Jeni on 06 February 2009 - 13:02

I don't know any thing about the two judges you asked about. A couple that are fun and judge the dogs not the owners or pedigrees are:
Dieter Oeser and Hans Peter Fetten. Both these judges don't want to see a catalog till after the show.
Jennifer

by ShelleyR on 06 February 2009 - 14:02

Don't get too deiscouraged. A lot of judges are very fair and unbiased, including Herr Fetten listed above. I DID manage to finish in the top 5 V's (and SG's in the young dog classes) as a virtual nobody (which I still am BTW) and I still believe it can be done today if you have the best dog and have worked hard to train and condition him/her. I even got V1and a Place 4 in Regional Shows with my gray working dogs a couple of times, so it CAN be done! Hang in there, learn all you can, work hard till you bleed. If you have the dog, sooner or later you can make it to the top. Most judges are happy to answer questions from novices, in depth, if you catch them during their down-time at the events. If you see them walk outside without a big entourage for a smoke, that's a good time to introduce yourself. That's not why I took up smoking at age 50 BTW, but its not all that bad an excuse. ;-D
SS

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