SIZE RANGE (GERMAN STANDARD) - Page 1

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PINERIDGE

by PINERIDGE on 03 February 2005 - 20:02

I should know this, but I don't think I do - What is the specified size ranges for dogs/bitches in the German Standard. Is 66cm to high end for Males ? (as that compares to the 26inches in the AKC standard. or are the German limits slightly higher ? When a dog's description says GROSS -- is that the 66cm end of the scale, or LARGER ? Depending on who you ask, one gets the impression that many of the top males are still oversized? (over 26 inches). I have very little tolerance for stud dogs being over this limit or PRODUCING over this limit. Where are you guys on this? Someone recently said that a good bitch was 58cm -(that's UNDER 23 INCHES), and I would consider that on the small side. I wouldn't get rid of a 24 1/2 inch bitch if she had all the "right stuff". (Pobody's Nerfect) - Just not breed her to a MOOSE !@!

Silbersee

by Silbersee on 03 February 2005 - 21:02

Pineridge, in the German standard, the size limit for males is 65cm (which is exactly 26 inches). 1cm (or 0.40 inches) over or under entitles him to be in KKL2, but is already considered oversize. There is a major discussion and overhaul going on in Germany right now concerning this. We had a discussion about this on the GSDWorld.net. If you are member, please check it out under Weekly Roundtable Discussions. Chris P.S. 58 cm is not under 23 inches, it is 23.2 inches, the exact medium size for a female.

by D.H. on 03 February 2005 - 21:02

65cm is the upper size limit for males (SV). 60cm for females. So yes, 58cm is a normal size for a female. Everything seems to be bigger in the USofA . Many show males are actually bigger than 65cm. Bigger usually = more impressive = getting more attention in the show ring. 1cm over is allowed anyways. The dog is then usually measured in at 65 all 4 times. I have not seen a KKL report that lists a dog at larger than that. Much bigger than that can be a problem though. There are a few exception to that rule of course. A male that measures in at 64cm is often only described as medium size in a KKL report. A show dog that is. A working line dog would most likely be described as above medium size at 64cm. Gross (large) usually refers to dogs that are 65cm, and to those that take advantage of that extra 1cm breathing room. SV size ranges: Males range from 60 to 65 cm, with weights ranging from 30 to 40 kg. Females range from 55 to 60 cm, with weights ranging from 22 to 32 kg. Disqualifying faults from the standard are more than 1cm above or below the standard size range. I am curious though, Pineridge, why you have no tolerance for an oversize male, but you do for an oversize female? 24 1/2 inches = 62 1/4 cm. And why is there so much negativity associated with the lower end of the scale? Smaller size does not necessarily mean that the dog lacks strength. I had a small female that was a powerhouse. One of her daughters is small but also a powerhouse. Mals are smaller but a force to be reckoned with. Size is not everything. The same applies to weight. 60lbs (27 1/4KG) is a good (lean!!!) weight for a medium size female, yet many people frown on that. 70 1/2 lbs = the max weight for a female, and yet many consider that not to be enough...

by D.H. on 03 February 2005 - 21:02

Hi Chris 65cm is actually exactly 25.5906 inches. 58cm = 22.8346 inches online metric converter: http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/EASYlength.html BTW - the KKL2 rule is hardly ever applied to 1cm oversize. Size has been a discussion for a long time, I personally doubt that much will change. Interesting too how differently show line dogs and working line dogs are treated in regard to size...

Silbersee

by Silbersee on 03 February 2005 - 21:02

Daniela, you are right. I omitted 4 millimeters (or 0.0063 inches), but it does seem that the AKC standard was written using the conversion 1 inch equals 2.5 cm. I am sure you have read Lothar's article in the January issue (to be continued) about the development of (over)size in our breed. Also, Erich Orschler promised in his Sieger Show critique that there will be counter measures taken against oversize. So we shall see, if the SV will do something this time. A couple of judges had said that they are not as concerned about the males but the size of the females.

PINERIDGE

by PINERIDGE on 04 February 2005 - 02:02

What about the size of the females, are they considerd too large also ? and the calculator I pulled up did convert 58cm to 22.8 - so under 23 by a few guard hairs. DH -- You ask a great question -- SIZE IS DEFINATELY NOT EVERYTHING !! Hence my having no need for a 27 or 28 inch MALE !! (my converter also gave back 66 cm for 25.98 inches - not 65 = 26 .. which is why I asked about 66 being the top end. My last 2 males were 26 1/4 inches and almost 27 ! The nearly 27 was about 1/2 W.German (let's say NOT show) sired by a Belgian working male - son of a semi-famous dog - anyway he was not heavy boned - or particulary deep in the chest and his good weight was 88 pounds. I also have a "little girl" who is barely 55 pounds soaking wet and I often question whether she is 23 inches tall -she is certainly less than 23 but more than 22. She is not a breeding animal -she is a pet - and she is SMALL (to me) -- My biggest girl was almost 25 inches -- She was my first registered GSD -- and I did not know that her sire was probably 28 inches !! She produced only one 27 inch male to my knowledge, and all of her pups were within range. I have it in my head that is is easier to run away with the size if you promote larger males - after all they can sire so many pups (and do more damage than the 40 pups a big girl might produce) -- But it seems such a chore to get the uneducated public to learn that the GSD is a MEDIUM SIZED DOG -- If you want 28 inches and 100 pounds-move up to a Great Dane - please !! (I know most of here don't want that) -- but so many "breeders" who are marketing a commodity - advertise BIG BONED BEAUTIES -- pups are 20 pounds at 8 weeks or whatever - you'd think they were selling them by the pound !!! I'm thrilled that my (imported) male adolescent is 26 inches - and has effectively stopped growing - I know they can sneak in an extra 1/4 to 1/2 inch after 18 months (I've had bitches do that) but he's a great size, not oversized, and so I'm a happy camper - As I await the arrival of my little girl - I know she will be "within range" and if she's 58cm - we shall call her "typey" and if she's 61cm we'll say she's full-sized - and within the standard - after all, it's the dog on the inside that counts, right?

by Sugarfoot on 04 February 2005 - 02:02

Hi Pineridge, Apparently about 90 percent of dogs are surveyed right at 65 cm – makes you wonder, eh? Regards.

by Sugarfoot on 04 February 2005 - 02:02

Hi Pineridge, I agree: Shep is meant to be a medium-sized dog. (And they love exporting the big ones!) Here’s a weird question: Is it possible to reduce a dog’s size before survey by running it ‘into the ground’ over a period of weeks before presentation – ie, by underfeeding and strenuously over-exercising?

by sunshine on 04 February 2005 - 05:02

Topic was addressed and although different responses still interesting as overview. www.schafer.is/gsd/bulletins_read/9709.html#9839

by Sugarfoot on 04 February 2005 - 07:02

Thank you so much for your interest Sunshine, but I do think I'd prefer to hear Pineridge' s experienced slant. Keep shining.





 


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