Sven Vom Grafental - Page 4

So what do you think now Gustav?? This is not the best choice if great hips are what you are looking for. There are better choices out there. I am not saying this male can not be used for breeding. But you have to know how to use him to try and get the best hips you can.

So only 2 of those UK scores are above the breed average, obviously that isn't all the Quiyk progeny as not all will have been scored.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone involved on this discussion. I believe this forum gives everyone a choice to base their opinion. 

My original question and own research has left me with more questions than answers. The information I have gathered from some friends familiar with the DDR line is that if you don't do your homework on certain dog's you will be wondering why in your litter you have: long coats, hip problems, nerve issues, skin problems etc. I guess this is true with the other breeding types: Czech, Slovak, West German, Belgium etc. But the truth is I have never heard it to be such a problem with a certain dog and the passion behind it. 

I have decided to skip this heat cycle on my female until I find the stud equal or better to my dog and hopefully reducing the problems with hips and nerves.

Thank you,

Guillermo  

DDR SDG, I never had an opinion on Sven in the first place,,,still don't, I don't judge breeding a dog by any one criteria or any one breeding. I have to know or be comfortable with siblings, parents, other partner involved, and past production if any or past production of siblings or parents BEFORE I even think to label a dog good or bad for a breeding. In this case I just didn't see enough data in enough areas to label the dog bad for Guillermo especially when I don't know his females history. I place less value on the dogs actual hips and more value on familial history....That's just me.

Out of 242 progeny, only 84 were scored, 53 a1's, 25 a2's, and 5 a3's. You can be confident that there was a significant number of dysplastic offspring that were not submitted, therefore providing a more decent ZW rating. Statistically, he falls in the top 250 best all time hip producers, based on SV data, but there is a suspiciously large gap between the percentage of xrayed progeny and percentage of xrayed progeny receiving a1status vs. the number of non xrayed progeny, comparing to other producers of his categorical record. Troll v. Haus Milinda would be fair comparison, who only 55% of xrayed progeny received a1 ratings, but 63% of Sven's did. But 32% of Troll's progeny were xrayed, and only 22% of Sven's. This strongly suggests a willfull attempt to withold information, so not to reflect poorly on the producer.

Was he a terrible producer for hips? Not necessarily! Still belongs in the top 300 on record. But as we know, HD is a condition involving many genes, so some breed matches will produce better or worse than others, as the female could be carrying the rest. This is where ZW ratings are supposed to help, but in my opinion Sven's ZW85 should not be betther than Trolls ZW88. My calculations reflect better on Troll's hip production, by about a 3.5% margin. I also compare xrayed results, but factoring in the number of progeny NOT xrayed against that final score. Having 45 to 55 percent of progeny xrayed is rather typical for most good producers, Sven's fewer xrayed with more a1 ratings is really not.

Wow Mr Ehret...I hope to be as knowlegeable as you one day about German Shepherds. By reading what you just said and looking at your website it is apparent that you have spent countless hours researching individual dogs and what they have produced in hips and working ability. I always learn something new when I read your posts.

PS...I love Hutch...he is going to make you a great stud one day.

I don't believe I know that much, at least I know there's alot I don't know.  I do like to apply what I've learned in other areas, as it may apply to breeding, and identifying the existance of less than obvious patterns, so my perspective on the breed isn't a very typical one.  Sven is the maternal grandsire of one of my females, so naturally I have a bit of interest in him.  I'm not all that enamored with the DDR bloodlines, though.  There seems so little that's worthwhile to select from.  Though, I wouldn't shy from DDR/west or DDR/czech crosses that prove successful enough (i.e., perhaps Ahron von Granit Rose).

Daryl,

Thanks for the informative analysis.

Sven is also my Boy Pharaoh's maternal grandsire.  Pharaoh's mother Sindy Ludwigseck is from Sven and Peddy Grafental.  His father Aron Poppitz is from Don Clausberg and Lizzy Poppitz.

Pharaoh's pedigree    www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/551839.html

He is 15 monhs old now and I am thinking about sending in to the a stamp program.

Michele

How do the prelims look?

Well Daryl, 

I have been a very negligent mommy and he has not been xrayed yet.  At least one of his littermates has been prelimmed at OFA and got a good.  I will have to get him tatooed.  Guess what my New Years resolution is....

Did you have a chance to look at his pedigree?  If so, what do you think?

I did take a look at Ahron Granit Rose and all I can say is WOW!!!  Needless to say, on of my personal all time favorites is Don Rolandsteich and I see a lot of Don in Ahron.

Michele

I think I'd be uncomfortable about it, but hope it goes well.  Ahron produced a few good'uns, so he was the first example that came to mind.  In my experience, DDR dogs can't offer the full package for me, and there are few crosses being developed.  It's difficult to find DDR dogs without seven or so particular sires, that are just a rehash of the same limited genepool, but I believe they have something to offer the rest of the breed.