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by Guillermo on 24 December 2008 - 20:12

Who in the U.S. or Canada owns a strong (male) proven producer of civil/fight drive from Sven Vom Grafental? 

by B.Andersen on 24 December 2008 - 21:12

A gentleman in New mexico has a son of Sven  i believe his name is Gary Nichols



by Pharaoh on 24 December 2008 - 22:12


You must be thinking about Boban, who in keeping with his notoriey, is in the pedigree database twice!

Last I heard, he is in Canada:


Here are the list (may not be complete) of Sven offspring.

Full disclosure, Sven is Pharaoh's maternal grandfather.  Pharaoh, like his moher, has that very deep Sven bark.


by Guillermo on 25 December 2008 - 00:12

Does Boban typically produce dog's with strong nerves and fight drive?

What about hip rating on his offspring?

by djon vouvjic on 25 December 2008 - 21:12

Guillermo - you ask if Boban had strong nerves and fight drives? He had neither. This dog was too messed up in the head for that. He never materialized.

Looks like his current owner is doing a better job of keeping him in place then his previous owners did but I wouldn't use him for breeding.

by DDR_SDG on 26 December 2008 - 01:12

 Boban had pups in Holland they had long coats missing teeth and some had bad hips. This comes from Sven and sindy combinations

by DDR_SDG on 26 December 2008 - 02:12

 Boban had pups in Holland they had long coats missing teeth and some had bad hips. This comes from Sven and sindy combinations


by Pharaoh on 26 December 2008 - 06:12

You can look up for yourself the ZW on the SV website

Here are the ZW's for the infamous Sven x Sindy combination that produced Boban

Sindy Schäferliesel 2050620 91
Sven Gräfental 1963946 85


So, Boban started out in life with a ZW of  (father 85) + (mother 91) = 176 divide by 2 = 88 starting ZW

There are endless rumors about Sven/Sindy and Boban.

Obviously the rumor that Sven/Sindy breedings were banned because their ZWs added together would be over 200 is not true since you can see that the ZWs added together are 176.

If Sven had thrown a bunch of displastic puppies his ZW would be over 100 and it is not, it is 85 which is a good number.

I don't know what the whole truth is but there are quite a few rumors that are definitely not true.

I do think it is safe to say that he is an extremely dominant male dog with lots of civil agression.

His current owner is very happy with him. 

by DDR_SDG on 26 December 2008 - 13:12

Jacques Suurmond  owned and breed Boban. The new owners including himself x rayed the pups at least half of the litter had hip problems. No Rumor Pharaoh you need to get your facts straight and i have read ddr facts you gave here  that are incorrect. Yea yea we know Sven is in your precious dogs pedigree. This person is looking for reliable information to use in breeding and wants to avoid any genetic problems.  SV banned the pair for the many problems to produced together 


by Pharaoh on 26 December 2008 - 17:12


I have no knowledge or facts to give anyone about Boban offspring.  He is not in the SV ZW database as he was not registered in Germany. 

You apparently have a personal axe to grind about Sven,  I looked up Sven's ZW and it is a very respectable 85.

Sven Gräfental 1963946 85
Peddy Gräfental 2115112 82

look it up yourself

Please explain how that is not a fact. 

Before I bought my puppy I looked up his mother's ZW (Sven x Peddy)

Sindy Ludwigseck 2160748 88

I checked his father's parents  Don x Lizzy  and his father Aron, all A normal hips

Don Clausberg 1987657 81
Lizzy Poppitz 2001598



Poppitz 2125551 78

Sindy Ludwigseck is a fast normal, her parents are both a normal.

That means that out of the 2 parents and 4 grandparents, there are 5 a normal and one fast normal, which is unfortunately his mother, the most important influence.  All six were breed surveyed,

There are no 100% guarantees in life,  I know that Pharaoh could still end up with bad hips or sommething else unforseen.  All I can do is check the available facts.  I spent some qualiy time with Aron and Sindy before I put down a deposit to see what they were like, loose and free to run around and interact.  It was a 13 hour drive.

Perhaps you feel that I should have checked the rumor mill instead?  Well, guess what, I do not have access to the rumor mill on a personal level as I am not breeding dogs for a living, I am an accountant and I have one dog and no kennels.   In a few years when Pharaoh is as civilized and off leash obedient as I want him to be, there will be a second dog.

From what I see of the rumor mill on this database, it is filled with petty jealousy and backstabbing.

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