Very short and steep upper-arm - Page 1

What does that mean ? And can you show me pictures of dogs with this ? And dogs that don't have this.

Is it a fault?

Yes, it is a fault, but, depending on the over all structure of the dog, it may not be a devastating fault in terms of how a given dog places in any given show. Of course, that depends on what other dogs are being shown too in that same class. 

I don't have a photo handy and do not have time to look for one, but if you have a dog who supposedly has this, email the photo to me and I can try to help you with this.

schwarzenberggsd@earthlink.net

No I don't have a photo, just saw a pic of a beautiful V10 Kalli von der Werther-Mühle, and there was this comment on his profile.

Kalli is indeed a very nice male. The comment you read was from someone posting and it is their opinion. In my opinion, they are way off base. The dog does not have a steep, short upper arm. You must take what you read here with a grain of salt. Many do not have a clue about what they look at or how a dog is judged. If you want to learn, the SV has a nice DVD out now about structure. It is in German, but I think they plan to do it too in English. There is also an good video available that will help you learn about structure and what to look at. The best way is to find a mentor who can show you these things.....

hodie, you`re wrong, Kalli has a very short and steep upperarm, his shoulder is correct. If you want to see a very good front angulation look at the pics of Orpheus Kräuterwiese or Lauser Emkendorfer Park here in database, just as an example. Perhaps you are able to understand what I mean.

Don`t understand me wrong, Kalli is a very nice male, but he has this fault.

no he does not have a steep uperarm it could be a little longer but it is not steep

jim h

Escobar, the upper arm is actually the "humerus" bone. Click here and locate this bone:www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/structure_information/2.html

The junction of the humerus and shoulder blade should form a 90 degree angle (this is the ideal angle, but is very often more than this). Straight upper arm is the term used when the humerus is more verticle and of course will usually result in a much greater angle than 90 degrees.

The length of the upper arm should approximate the length of the shoulder blade. A short upper arm is just that and is very evident when you get your hands on the dog.

While Kalli does seem to have a short upper arm, it appears to have a good angle to it. It is often very diffulcult to determine these things from a picture if the dog has a heavy coat.

Read the standard a few times and relate it to the diagrams on this site, very informative.

Best, Rik

Every top zuchtschau GSD has at least one weakness or deficiency, although slight.  Kali has a slight shortness and slight steepness of upper arm, just like his sire is known to have, and it is well known this can be thrown by his sire.  But it is slight and the dog moves correctly in spite of it.  Canto Wienerau who also had this fault and was one of the best movers from the side there ever was and produced it for generations to come.  Some of Kali's photos exaggerate this and in some you wouldn't notice it.  Overall Kali is a very nice GSD, moves well and is worthy of breeding to bitches who compensate for this issue and need the many good qualities he can provide. If I was the owner I would select one of his later photos which do not show this very slight issue.

Norbert is right. Kalli has that reputation. The photo here on the Pedigreedatabase does not show how steep his upper arm is (since you can hide a lot with taking the sideview at a slightly different angle), but it is clearly visible that it is short.

Chris, does your Olympia have as nice a shoulder as appears in her pic on your web site. Absolutely beautiful. Is she a for real working dog. 

I missed you in Aachen. I was camped out at the 12 month female ring Friday and Sat. If you are going to Kentucky, I would still like to meet you. 

Best, 

Rick Atchley