Forget the SV to help, we're fair game to get defrauded by the Germans - Page 1

Do not do business with the Germans unless you are standing right there in front of them.  

In the old days, not so long ago, The SV stepped up to the plate and would correct any misbehavior  or mishandling on the part of an SV member.   I was in such a situation yrs ago and they helped greatly. 

It seems that  in more recent times, the SV was sued by some crooked members who won their case in court in that the SV is not allowed to step in when there is mishandling misbehavior fraud etc on the part of their SV breeders, members.  

I was told in so many words BY THE SV that the SV is no longer allowed BY LAW to get involved with issues between members.   They have become the AKC!!!  

So, don't count on getting the SV to help any longer,  and IF you are going to buy a dog, GO THERE, check it out, pick it up, ck the tattoo, take it to the vet, have all sorts of tests ran because you will be defrauded if you don't do this, and simply hope for the best.  The time of honesty has gone out the door.

With the euro being as expensive as it is, the cost of shipping an adult dog ($1000 now and $280 in 2000) it simply isn't worth it any more any way, and I suggest you go to the best breeders in your own country of origin and deal with them directly. 

Remember, you will have NO RECOURSE; NO PROTECTION WHAT SO EVER if, no, WHEN they defraud you and they are aware of it, believe me.   The only thing we can do is post on the internet who those breeders are, but I suggest to not deal with any of them at this point.  As the word is getting out in Germany that the SV can't do anything against them any more. 

You will have to take matters into your own hands and from that distance, it is impossible.  

I would LOVE to know who the DISHONEST BREEDERS  are in Germany. Can you e-mail me privately?

I just want to add that there are BREEDERS in the United States, that I would not do business with. They are just as bad.

A word of mouth can do wonders, and can keep people away from Breeders who can cheat, lie, and then take your money!

Oh Gina... What makes you any better than they are.

Takes one to know one.

FEED your DOGS!!!!

Arrakis:  GO GIRL:  Got news for ya, your list may be very long. I have talked to three people this week who have big issues with several big name breeders in Germany and not getting any bigger.

Still waiting on Martina to come forth with an answer...

Some  one else I know ,  has some issues she is waiting on,too. Is there a cut off period in Belgium and Germany, of how long a breeder , keeps putting you off , till the law runs out of prejudice?

Kerschberger, thanks for the heads up on this change with the SV. Very important information. 

There are still some German Kennels that deliver what they promise time after time and have for many years.  There are some top American breeders that have long term relationships with certain top German breeders that get honest deals. The key is always to know the breeder well.

One name that comes to mind is Kirshental for being honorable and doing what they promise.  I just haven't ever heard anything bad about them and have heard of quite a few honest deals.  I know there are some others.  But, I agree with your assertion that if possible it is often a smart thing for American breeders to use top stud dogs located in the US.

New here , I read here but never care to post due to all the  unnecessary name calling and lack of class. Not talking about you ladies,BUT I have to post to this,

German breeders are NO different then many USA breeders.  I would rather buy from here but find myself always going to the Germans. I bought a female working line from a small breeder in Germany and she ended up to be the exact female he described to me and she is an awesome dog.Top sport and very dual purpose. I'm again buying from a small German breeder right now. I have found them honest and having great dogs to sell. Unlike the BIG breeders in Germany I find for the most part ( unless you go there) will sell you what THEY don't want  . We have a young dog that was purchased by a member of our Club for $7500 at 8 weeks, I find that a complete rip off and the dog to me is no more special then a pup for $1500 and that pup came from a big breeder in the US, that breeder to me is a rip off artist...But I have to add that no one forces buyers either to pay that amount.They choose to pay that price but I think $7500 is so off the top!

I am not saying that breeders in the US are not good but I do like the SMALL breeders in Germany. For bad cases,  you can hire an attorney in the USA that can file with an attorney in Germany and go from there...

By the way who is Gina?

 I have personally bought many dogs from excellent and ethical breeders in Germany and also from the US and other countries. It simply depends on who you do business with. Period.

There are crooks on both sides of the pond, plain and simple. I would not buy a dog from overseas unless that breeder came recommended from someone I trust over here. Personally, I won't import a dog until the dollar improves, anyway.

Kczaja said:

"until the dollar improves". Let's hope this happens sooner than later.

Boy, you have that right. We have a Czech trainer/helper coming to visit for two months and possibly will be bringing one of the last sons of Art z Lipin here to stay for the year as a stud. The cost of the airfare with the dollar as it has been is hurting!

But your comment about both sides of the pond and knowing someone you trust to recommend is always great advice. All too often however, people who don't realize they are dealing with someone they should not trust to begin with, recommend someone else who a novice should steer clear of. So it is never simple. 

Yup; reputation is everything. I didn't know the SV wouldn't stand up to help you in a mess (yes, I done knew AKC wouldn't), but then again, I've never needed their help with a foreign dog issue/problem. Yeah, it's sad when the kennel club organizations don't seem to care if someone deals with someone else ethically or not. :o/ And keep in mind, most foreign dogs are sold 'as is'-they aren't accompanied with big warranties like expected out of breeders here in the US. It's all the more reason why you'd best do your homework before purchasing.
Kirschental is excellent, period. I've bought from them twice; excellent from start to finish both times. No problems, no issues, no qualms, no lost sleep. I got excellent healthy puppies both times. They are the only overseas kennel I have dealt with direct, and I give them a hearty .
If you buy from someone who has been established for a long time and has a proven track record for quality bloodlines, successful showing, and working with their clients, then why not purchase from them?  The internet is available for you to google any kennel name/breeder's name to see what might be out there concerning them, good and bad. If you can find someone who has dealt with a kennel, you can always contact them and request info concerning their purchase experience.
I agree-there's "world class" breeders here in the US who aren't worth crap. I'm sure there are some nice reputable ones on American soil, but so far, my experience prior to going overseas to Kirschental with breeders here in the US was not so pleasant; even from kennels offering big guarantees, etc-it was all eyewash.