Bad temperment - Page 8

Without actually seeing the way the dog acts, it's always hard to tell but my initial feeling is that Sue_B is correct. The dog sounds as though it has a very low defense threshold and a pronounced willingness to defend itself; in other words, a fear biter. While he doesn't agree that his is a fear agressive dog, I do agree with Charlie_I that this dog can not be helped and should be put down. I've only seen a couple of dogs up close that had this problem but it was unmistakeable; they are neurotic. Correcting this animal will only reinforce his behavior and muzzling him only adds stress to a pup who's already an emotional basket case. Like some people, some dogs have mental illness that can't be mitigated and keeping them alive only prolongs their torturous existence. I'm sure that your friends have the best of intentions but they need to do what is best for the dog and what is best for this dog is probably to give him peace.

Even amongst us for whom this characteristic in our breed is paramount, a very common misspelling.

Clearly everyone has valid points and the best interests of this puppy in mind. The downside is without professional intervention, he will most likely end up hurting someone and getting his owners into a lot of trouble. If we want to assign blame, it should be to the people at that rescue who allowed such a dog to go to a novice owner. Even those on with board with the best dog training skills might never be able to turn this puppy around, how can a novice do it. Shame on that rescue, they are not doing their job and have also put their own organization in jeopardy of being sued if that puppy does any physical harm. If an experienced trainer would take this puppy to fix, then I might have some hope that he might make it. However, in the hands of novices, Charlie is correct, it is a horible accident waiting to happen and he should be put down. I don't make such a statement lightly, I was employed as a vet tech for many years and saw far too many good dogs get killed because of stupid owners who no longer want to be bothered with them As far as Charlie and his attitude toward Wildthing, I believe Patrishap commented about that, this woman has been harassing ME on this board for the last month. She has convinced herself that I am her neighbor, Blitzenstein German Shepherds, and evidentally her competitor for area puppy sales. She buys well bred dogs from Germany and elsewhere, does not train or title them and sells their offspring to the general public with open AKC registration and they in turn use them for breeding. Does this sound to anyone like a concerned GSD breeder? I have tried and tried to convince her I am not her mortal enemy Blitzenstein, but she just won't let it drop. I know some people on the board, including my friend Charlie, and so far all of them have told her I am not who she thinks I am, but she just won't drop it. She even emails some privately about me and tells them that I am a puppymill. Actually, what she thinks about me is not a big factor in my life, the woman has a screw lose and can't even write in an intelligent manner. I don't blame Charlie for being tired of dealing with her both on the board and privately. I appreciate everyone sticking up for me, but just let it go now. She's thick as a brick and nothing anyone sayd to her is going to make one bit of differenct. Let's just ignore her and move on, it's not worth the aggrevation. You can't fix stupid.

Hi friends, I don't know about this 4 1/2 year old puppy. It would be interesting to know how he interacts in the family. I think what is really important, is to see that the dog wants to be social. I mean some kind of glimmer of light that tells you, hey, he has a good heart in there and we just have to get it out. Sunny

I of course meant 4 1/2 month old puppy. Sorry.

I think everybody agrees that one of the 3 factors caused the puppy's behavior/temperament (Mr. Grossman, please note my spelling): 1) Genetics Aggression can very well be inherited and even compounded, and it is evident in both, working and conformation lines. If this is the problem, nothing can fix him, and he needs to be put down before a tragedy will happen. Usually, the victims are children. DH, how is that little 10 year old doing? Even if he did not physically get hurt, what about mentally? Is he ever going to be able to approach a dog a normal way? 2) Medical A veterinary check-up should rule out any medical reasons for this kind of behavior. 3) Environmental What kind of trauma could cause a puppy to go ballistic like that? That is very very rare. Defense in that extreme is usually developed over a longer time. Fear biter? I always thought that a fear biter is a dog who will not have enough courage to challenge a person head on (especially with eye contact). For me the definition would be a dog who will attack when a person turns his back, and the preferred choice will be, of course, children. I know it is a shame to put a young dog to sleep, but responsible dog ownership dictates that, too. If something terrible will happen (or should I rephrase when something terrible will happen, since it seems to be only a matter of time), there will be a public outcry about the bad bad German Shepherd Dog, not any better than all these other fighting breeds. Look to Germany, the hysteria about dogs started when one (or maybe even two, I forgot) pitbulls who ran loose (why) jumped onto a shool play area and killed a young boy in front of teachers and other students. That happenend in Hamburg, but anti-dog legislature spread like wildfire throughout Germany. The result is that people are not allowed to own and breed certain dog breeds anymore. The SV is to be commended: They worked hard to keep our breed out of the bad dog breeds list. But other breeds, like the Rottweiler and the Dobermann were affected. We do not need that kind of trouble here, just because some people feel compelled to save everything and place it into the wrong hands. Like Blitzen and Sue said, shame shame on that so-called rescue organization. A good rescue organization should be able to cull the bad from the good ones, otherwise they are nothing more than animal rights activists (let's free them from slavery (responsible pet ownership) and turn them loose so they can fend for themselves, regardless of the consequences). We should never never never place a dog above our family members, especially our children. JMO, Chris (a concerned mother of a 7 and a 3 year old and responsible dog breeder/owner).

Chris, I told you about my brother's neighbors. Really ready to get a new dog. One weekend, they are standing out in the front yard and they have a bull terrier mix of 6 months at the end of the leash. I stop to greet them. Then my brother's GSP (hunting dog) comes out to greet us who is just a wonderful friendly chap. Dog stays clear away from the new pup. I take my dogs out, on the leash. Puppy shows aggression, no capability to play not even with the endearing GSP. Turns aggressive towards the dogs and being on the leash turns on the child standing next to Daddy. The next day, the 6 month old puppy was returned to rescue. These people were burned. Their good hearts to rescue a dog came to a tremendous disappointment. What is really sad, another good home lost to a good dog. They don't want the responsibility anymore. Sunny

"...temperament (Mr. Grossman, please note my spelling)" LOL! Thank you. :p Again, without actually seeing how and under what circumstances the pup becomes agressive, it's impossible to say. I don't agree, however, that a fear biter will not challenge someone head on, especially if it thinks it has no other options.

Cheers All, I thought initially this would turn out to be a pretty short topic, but it evolved into something quite informative. At first I concluded we were looking at pup with simple people-biting problem which, at such tender age, was perhaps correctable in right hands. Now I think it's simply a case of wrong genetics or too much inbreeding. Even though my critters are harmless as such, I still worry constantly about the financial and legal implications should one damage some third party. The impact thereof could be astronomical! Unless this pup were guaranteed to be contained in a kennel full-time, I wouln't care to have it anywhere near me! Surely the owners realise such possible consequences? DH: Thank you again for intelligent information. Alpha's input helps as well. Blitz (or Blitzenstein you!): I know from long and bitter experience in other field, what dealing with really stupid people can be like - you have our sympathies. Keith: I agree wholeheatedly with you comments above. I take it then also that you dislike seeing the language corrupted into 'simplified form' - join the club! Silbersee: Good input but, I cannot but wonder whether you and Blitz aren't putting to much blame on rescue organisations. I'm no expert here but surmise that most are staffed by well-meaning people and that, once having saved an animal from harmful situation and placed it elsewhere rather than putting it down, would think 'job well done'! Sunshine: Somehow it seems that at some crucial stage this pup missed out on being properly socialised, or was 'mis-socialised'. I think it's simply result of inbreeding - ie it's nuts! Even with your kind heart, you wouldn't want this pup near any family kids, dear lady.

Hello Patrishap, Yes, you are correct, I might be expecting too much from rescue people. Thanks for reminding me that we are all human and subject to being less than perfect. God bless them for doing the job most of us try to avoid at all costs. My opinions are the result of frustation. It's just such a very sad thing to think that a young dog might have to be killed.