Bad temperment - Page 7

A friend of mine had a doberman puppy once who had a rotten temper. He gave him free - at about 5 months age- to a trainer who promised he can turn him around and develop him into a protection dog. The dog did well for a while, and was sold as an adult to another guy . The new owner got badly bitten and put down the dog after 6 months of trying to improve the relation.

Guys, What an interesting post...Charlie, nice talking to you earlier, hope everything works out...Well we are all in agreement, the poor pup has a problem but we're at odds on how or if it can be fixed. I think the family should go thru training, they are obviously reinforcing the negative behavior and contributing to the problem.I know this is going to get me in trouble, hey I'm getting an IM so I'll make this short, Call the DOG WHISPERER>>>

Hey Peter, in your case some behaviour modification can help (at least til the zapper gets there :) ). My house pet is a whippet girl. Whippets are notorious for chasing after anything that moves fast. I was determined that this one (lost my last one due to speed, she collided with another dog and broke her back) was not going to chase without permission and could go with me everywhere off leash. She is 8 years old now and I can call her off from chasing rabbits, deer, etc. She only turns deaf when she encounters larger dogs that are afraid of her and run off :). That little bitch runs the roost here. So if a whippet can be taught not to take off (and everyone said it was not possible) surely your girl can learn. First step. You need to teach your girl that she will be abandoned by her "pack" if she runs off. You can do this in a secure fenced area to get the basics down. Let her run ahead, then call her ONCE. At that moment you stop. If she is not comming back, you walk away in the opposite direction. If she comes to you, stop, wait for her to come right up to you and praise her. Start walking ahead again and repeat. Make coming to you fun and let her know that it pleases you. If she is not coming back to you you keep moving in the opposite direction. If the area has a gate even better. If she absolutely does not come, exit through the gate and close it behind you. Move back a little more and wait. She will eventually come to that spot wanting to get to you. Wait a moment, then go back inside but igonore her. She will probably bounce around trying to get your attention. Ignore her!! Start walking forward again and let her run ahead, then call her ONCE. The process starts anew. Eventually she will pay more attention to where you are, because you keep stopping or moving away from her. You need to establish that if she does not come, she is going to be "abandoned". No dog wants to loose its pack. So she will start to pay more attention to where you are.

The basic principle of this is as follows: - The moment you call her you stop. - When your girl moves towards you, you remain stationary and DO NOT move towards her. You can move back while still facing her to entice her a little. - If she fails to move towards you, you move in the opposite direction - away from her. - She only receives praise for coming, otherwise she will be ignored. - Only call her once, never repeat a command or use other noises. - Always stop session on a positive note. Meaning the first time you do this and she comes, you praise her, put her on a leash (so that she cannot mess this up again on the way home), and finish that session. From there on make it a bit harder to achieve praise each time. She needs to come a second time, three times, etc. She has to come faster, etc. Once this works well for both of you, move on to an open field. Repeat the same process but stretch out the distance a bit. If she has a habit of running off on you in an open field you can use a 10meter leash as an aid. Once you get to larger distances, you can move back at a bit of an angle to her and wave arms, pretend to jog slowly, etc so that she can detect your movement over the distance. Dogs have poor eyesight when it comes to stationary objects, but keen eyesight on moving objects - so help her out here and give her the needed visual aid. When you move this exercise to the woods, she does not have the advantage to be able to see you. Here, let her move ahead only a small distance at first. Call her once and stand still. The first time you do this in the woods remain stationary even if she is not coming right away, especially if she is out of sight already. She will come back to look for you,so you want to give her a chance to succeed and understand what is expected of her. Make sure she comes all the way back to you before you proceed. Your first few walks in the woods may literally be 10 steps forward, 15 steps back. It takes some time to form her "new habit" to look for you all the time, and come back to you. You need to be consistent and consequent. Yur two goals here are One - she has to get into the habit of always looking at what you are doing, where you are going. Two - she has to come back to you all the way when called. So you cannot let her get away with just checking on you when you have called her.

A pack will always stay in touch while travelling. So what has been happening so far is that the pack is moving into the woods and spreading out, and she is moving ahead of the pack. You are probably calling her again and again - staying in touch with HER. As you go after her, she hears that you are following HER. Your calls are also a beacon for HER, a point of reference. She can hear where you are and thus feels very secure to keep moving. She can safely keep on going because you are right behind her. She is enjoying her outing, it gives her a rush. Thus this behaviour becomes self-reinforcing, actually self-rewarding. The more often she is doing this successfully the harder it will be to break. The "guilt" when she comes back is a small price to pay in comparison for the thrill she is experiencing from her unauthorized outings. Now you step in and change the rules. There will be no more "beacon" (your voice) that will give her security. She will learn that she needs to follow YOU, or else she will be left behind. You mention several dogs. You can actually make a stronger statement so to speak, if you have another dog or two with you, on leash so you don't have the whole bunch to worry about. Now you and your leashed dogs are a firmly knit together pack. This will create a stronger desire in your girl to stick together and remain part of that group. If you work on this for 15-20 minutes every day, you should have the problem under control in less than a month. Takes more time and committment than the zapper method, but the results are usually pretty permanent. We teach young pups from the start to come this way. It imprints very firmly at an early age that coming when called is always better than being left behind. In young pups you keep the distance short though and make coming to you loads of fun. All my pups come when called by the time they are 8 weeks old and usually stay that way unless they learn at some point that they can get away with not coming. Usually with inexperienced owners... An e-collar is an excellent tool if used properly. Unfortunately you find them in the wrong hands all to often, with people that use it as a quick fix for every little glitch. Running away is a serious problem, so is the distance and lack of visibility in the woods. You can check if there are any field dog clubs in your country (ie Golden or Labrador Retriever Clubs). If they hold field trials, surely someone in those clubs will be able to get an e-collar for you. These people were the real driving force behind perfecting those collars and getting them to work at distances up to a mile. The e-collars usually come with an instructional video. There is also an alternative to the e-collar. It is a remote collar that works with a citronella spray. The range is limited and you cannot adjust the severity. I think the only options you have are a short burst or a steady spray, thats it.

this company has a pretty good variety of e-collars: www.cabelas.com click on hunting/optics on the left hand menu then look on the right hand side, it lists several makes of e-collars. They also have beeper collars - so if all fails, you can at least hear where your dog has run off to :).

I adopted a 4 1/2 month old male shepherd from the pound 6 years ago.His attitude was the exact same as this puppy everyone is talking about..He did the avoidance,the eye stareing,the unprovoked biting and attempt biting.He was a beautiful black and rust male,They had founf him running loose and didnt know his background..He was dog aggressive,food aggressive,and would very strongly insist on you not touching any of his toys or he would try to rip off your hand..He didnt like being touched and would look at you with a very suspicious eye..He was fear aggressive,dominent,and very confused, didnt seam like hed been loved much or properly disciplined for anything.. Within 2 months i ended up adopting this puppy to a working home(with full confidence)and to this day he has been awesome.He works in search& rescue and has been doing very well.After teaching this puppy what was black and white, that there was NO in between,He lost if he showed negative behaviour and won when he showed the correct behaviour..Serious discipline,Motivation,Strong praise,pulled this dog from CUJO to a workingtrusted k9 that COULD get along in society..So yes from experience,IN THE RIGHT HANDS THIS PUPPY COULD BE TURNED AROUND,BUT I WOULD NOT SAY WITH WHERE HE IS NOW...He needs an experienced handler and trainer..

Cheers DH, As an indication of how valuable I considered your input to be, I printed it off (the only thing I ever have from this site!) - and especially so for benefit of my better half (I like to think somewhat that past lapses from that quarter in observing proper firmness are part of the blame - oh, so nice to be able to blame someone else!). I knew and apply myself much of what you stated, but there was also a fair bit I didn't. Besides, you organised it into such a useful, logical way, that it will be useful as a refresher or reminder as to how it should be done! You noted how the thrill of chase far outweighs the subsequent guilt of having misbehaved - after many repeats and totally ineffectual punishments (not physical, I hasten to add!), I'd tentatively come to same conclusion but was never really sure as to whether this was really sufficient as the explanatory motivating factor as I hadn't seen it affirmed elsewhere. You surely know exactly what problem is, for her behaviour falls precisely in line with your description! Here's a bit of a conundrum though: she's a very smart girl and with strong streak of indepence - really not a nasty, willful bone in her, loves to work. Now, in any closed area, or on lead or close vicinity, all the steps of training you outlined - or our inferior but similar versions - all work perfectly. No complaint and eagerness galore.( I started training her from pretty young age). If you saw it for yourself, you'd say there wasn't any problem at all! In fact, I even fool myself: take her into woods and I think 'this time it will be different' - it never is! Give some distance between us - and it doesn't need to be much - and slightest provocation, and off she goes! A few days ago was the last time, and judging by her exhausted state, she'd had a whale of a time! And, of course, you never know where she is in the meantime, which can be rather worrying, I tell you! And, as also noted by you, with each repeat performance, the behaviour is reinforced. Where I'm located the electronic collars are partially or wholly banned banned by regulation, and you basically don't see them. Yet when I first looked them up (months ago now when problem first started), I remember seeing some importer apparently having limited versions offered for local sale. I will definitely be applying your techniques and see what happens, but have feeling collar may be only solution -I need something drastic(?) at this point! I'm going to do new searches, find out what the regulations here actually are, and as to what collars are locally available. Your efforts were beyond the call of duty, and I thank you.

hello folks some great training advice from DH -- excellent -- the only comment that i would add is that -- you do not have to stand still while calling your dog -- moving away always is even better . but either way it should not matter . the rational -- first i train my dogs .. you come when i call , standing , moving , running -- it is their responsibilityu to always follow my movements .. they must always be focused onto me annd my direction literally and figuratively ..point number two -- a dog must have a reason to come to you --- a submissive dog it is easier .. but i have some very very dominant GSD's .. - for this temperament you must surely show them one way or another it is in their [best] interest to come to you -- [[ for my call off the bite ion ring for example i always recall my dog for another bite and fight that is his liking ].. third -- well do you cnanines ?? they have thoughts , can deductive reason for sure and have feelings .. not to gaet into discussioon that the GSD is about the NOSE / SCENT -=- you can condition condition .. but always remember , even with the best trained canines --instinct -- when you come across something beyond for what and the level you have trained .. you can mdo 100 perfect recall every where every time but when classical [ pavlov's bell and food] kick in weatch out --- if you do not want youir dog to pick up scent in the woods then you must train it to leave that scent / ? animal alone .. you must train leave the deer . leave the rabbit , leave the fox etc etc . -- this takes much time and intensive behavior -- or if you are not experienced you will have problems -- the Electronic collar can be the most kind or the worst ever training tool !! your voice can be worst for the best and kindest way to utiloize it -- in the woods a great tool .. even a leash or long line can be most creul a waepon to use on a dog . however -- you must be well aware of the pitfall - i mwon't go on more but can about that later - believe me not done correcxtly the dog will have figured every move and vantage wearing it before you do -- so good luck

oops -- meant to clearly write Dependent and Independent next to submissive and dominant -- for the concept