Beginning The GSD Journey - Page 1

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by GSDLVR on 04 November 2004 - 20:11

I am curious, if one was to desire to embark on the responsible GSD Breeding Journey (for the purpose of bettering the breed, educating the public on wonderful GSDs as companions & more, and to simply to be surrounded by them at all times!...), what information/reading material would be absolutely necessary before even considering it? What initial steps should be taken? Thanks.

by Blitzen on 04 November 2004 - 21:11

If you're lucky you'll find a breeder who is interested in mentoring novices. There are so many factors involved that it would be impossible to find a few sources of information that would provide all you need to know. I've have little success with either and found the only import breeders interesting in helping a novice are those who expect to sell you a dog or get paid to train or handle a dog for you. When they find out you aren't ready yet, you never hear from them again. Those who have become friends are pretty much in the same boat as me, just starting out, some coming from other breeds as myself, others with their first GSD. Most I know are walking away in disgust. It's even hard to find a training club, one friend was turned away by the trainer saying - we don't want novices, only people who have already trained to a title. Duh... IMO, most GSD breeders want to keep this a very elite sport unattainable to most outside of their close circle. Then you have the rift between the working and the showlines, they don't like each other much and both detest the AKC American line breeders. Frankly, the AKC line breeders are a lot friendlier to novices and far more interested in mentoring than are most with imports. May be the reason why some go to American lines even though they may prefer the imports. I read all the time about how it is not ethical to breed from untitled dogs, but anyone can buy a bitch from a Va sire for breeding whether or not they plan to title before breeding or not. Maybe some sympathetic soul on this board would be willing to help you get a start. If you truly want to get on the merry go round, I hope that you find a good mentor. My experiences have been very poor, I wish you better. After 10 years of trying to understand why novices are discouraged and exploited rather than mentored, I have given up on ever breeding a litter or titling my own dog. I'm just not in the clique.

by GSDLVR on 04 November 2004 - 21:11

Wow - that sounds pretty bleak, Blitzen. I can see and understand your frustration, tho. Thanks for the input. If I were inclined to quit, I'd pack up and take my willingness to work hard to succeed at something worthwhile home with me....But, I'm not. I imagine GSD connoisseurs probably grow weary of mentoring amateurs because it takes time, energy and a lot of effort and they run the risk of the "rookie" being impatient,frustrated with the process and abandoning the discipline it takes to be excellent. Then again, maybe some are in it for the power, the name, the $. But I do believe there is a creme de la creme that want to pass on what they know - for the GSD's benefit....as the saying goes, " Success without a successor is failure". I am not looking for the 90% of critics that want to chew me up and spit me out for asking...I'm just looking for a few good men (or women) that know what they are talking about to help me fulfill my dream - the right way; the best way...which may not be the shortest distance between two points! :)

by Blitzen on 04 November 2004 - 21:11

I truly hope some of those few good one are reading this list and will help you out. If no response on this board, you might want to sign on GSDWorld.

by GSDLVR on 04 November 2004 - 21:11

Thanks again, Blitzen. I'll wait and see. :)

by WolfGang on 04 November 2004 - 21:11

It really depends on whether your talking about "working lines" or "show lines"...and are you talking about American or European lines...it's very hard to learn any of the stuff...to most folk that are in the GSD's you need to hang out/around and prove that you're really...really interested...there are too many people who say they are interested but only for a short time...people in the breed get tired of teaching people who say they are interested and then after a very short time disappear...in learning to title a dog in Schutzhund...you also need to prove that you're really in it for the long haul...it takes a long time to title a dog to a SchHIII...if you have good help and a good Helper...I have heard from people that have been in the sport for years saying about new members..."let them learn the way we did...hang out and just fall on their faces a few times and then maybe we'll help them"...well I was taught that if you touch a "hot" stove and it burns you that you tell your kids that it will burn them if they touch it...that doesn't mean they won't try to touch it...I too believe that the best teacher is to try something and fail...and the next time you try it you might just listen to someone who tried to tell you the right way to do it...GSDLVR e-mail me and I'll talk to you some more...BleuHaus@msn.com

by corieone on 04 November 2004 - 22:11

GSDLVR ... It can be a very frustrating journey. I am not sure how many times I have said I am never doing this again, not training anymore, etc. Guess I just can't get them out of my system. :-)) Happy to answer any questions I can. Remember too, there are a lot of different opinions out there on every aspect of training and breeding. You have to talk to a lot of people and LISTEN a lot like Wolfgang said. Then you have to decide what works for you. Feel free to email .... corieone@yahoo.com

by Roger Ven Torres on 04 November 2004 - 22:11

GSDLVR - there are a lot of accomplished breeder in the gsdworld.net site as Blitzen stated. They may be able to help. I am a frustrated, wanna be breeder for the last 15 years. All that was discussed above are valid. Personally: 1. Breeding should be for personal use, never for profit or somebody else's expectations, other than the founders breed standard (of course subject to much debate as to the defintion of "working"). Unlike livestock, which is easier to cull and even consume, these inferior products of breedings. Do you have the heart to cull? It is therefore built in that you are unlikely to make money from the start. 2. Placement issues. Where will you place dogs you can not sell or dogs that are returned? Food and care, etc? Ethically, the dog whether owned by somebody else, if you breed them, should be a lifetime commitment/responsibility of the breeder to the animal. Are you able to compete with larger kennels that have warranties? How can you replace? 3. Whether you show - showlines, or compete with working lines, you have to have the time or resource to strut their stuff. It is the tape measure of your achievements. This again involves a lot of money. 4. Networking. Whether you have the money or not, most successful breeders network with people. Julie of Mittelwest kennels have successfully work with individuals and small kennels, so as Bullinger I believe. These breeders are the ones you can mentor with, whether you have the resources or not. Their model is fascinating, and looking into their lines you can see 3 to 4 generations of their own kennel on the motherline. That is breeding! Not just first generation . 5. Avoid being too enthusiastic, there are a lot of people that would take you in (Been there more than once!). Research, learn everything about training, selection etc. Expect the worst at all times. On the other hand have realistic expectations. Puppies are crap shoot, my $3000 puppy was way behind a $500 in a local show. It does not matter whether the mom and dad are VA and imported. Less risky are older dogs. 6. I have watched tapes, DVD's, books, but nothing helps better than finding a friend you can trust. 7. Compromise, not, the goal of the founder. Make sure you have a full grasp of what "working" is about. Learn from both sides of extremes in this arena. JMHO, Roger

by sunshine on 04 November 2004 - 23:11

GSDLVR. . . and the journey takes alot of turns and has its ups and downs. Beginning with a good dog is of course a good start. Inform yourself about the parent clubs: USA, GSDCA-WDA, DVG etc. etc. Attend trials and shows and try to talk to people who are active in training and/or showing. The journey can be very rewarding too because you learn so much along the way. Be able to accept that your goals may change the more you get involved. That is why having a good dog at your side will help you overcome any disappointments about the sport and the scene. If you are lucky you will meet a good person or group on your journey that will guide you. Canine Training Systems and Leerburg Video put out alot of videos and have lists of reading material from which you can pick and choose according to your interests.

by wildthing on 05 November 2004 - 05:11

ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh HELP ME PLEASE WITH BITZEN THE JOKER ON THIS SITE, PLEASE CHECK HIM OUT BY EMAIL OR WHATEVER, HE IS A TRUE FAKE ON THIS BOARD. HE HAD TONS OF TIME TO RESEACH AND READ WHILE IN PRISON SOME 3 YEARS, JUST PLAIN ASK HIM THE TRUTH AND ASK FOR HIS EMAIL TO ASK HIM ALSO. I AM THE ONLY ONE THAT KNOWS THIS CHARACTER OF DECEPTION OF AND LIES AND MY NIECE IS SIGNING ON SOME TIME UNKNOWN TO EVEN ME AND SHE KNOWS THIS CHARACTER LIVE AND IN THE REAL AND I DO NOT EVEN KNOW HOW SHE WILL COME ON THIS BOARD BUT SHE IS AND SHE WILL SET U ALL STRAIGHT. NOW, I AM OFF TO BULLINGER TO TALKE TO TRACY MY DEAR FRIEND AND SHE IS GUILDING ME THE RIGHT WAY ON MY FEMALE PUP TO BE IN JAN SOMETIME. THANK YOU ALL FOR ALL U HAVE DONE FOR ME........LOL





 


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