GROUP JUDGE CRITIQUE-ZAMP VOM THERMODOS-CRUFTS - Page 1

 I  NOTICED THAT A FEW PEOPLE WERE DEBATING ON THE HANDLING OF ZAMP AT CRUFTS JUST THOUGHT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO READ WHAT IT SAID IN THE DOG PRESS--------WHAT A HEARTBREAKER, A MARVELLOUS DOG WHO SHOWS THE CORRECT GERMANIC TYPE WITH A FRONT TO DIE FOR, GREAT BODY AND OVERALL PROPORTIONS. oNE I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE GIVEN THE GROUP TO, UNFORTUNATELY IT WAS NOT TO BE, AS HE HAD THE BAD HANDICAP OF A HANDLER WHO NEVER AT ANY POINT ATTEMPTED TO STAND, OR MOVE HIM TO ADVANTAGE. wHAT A DIFFERENCE ANY ONE OF OUR BRITISH HANDLERS COULD HAVE ACHIEVED WITH THIS WONDERFUL DOG. I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH HIS CONFORMATION AND FANTASTIC SIDE GAIT WHICH I SAW FOR A FEW STRIDES WHEN HIS HANDLER WASNT BLOCKING ME OFF.   

So this was a direct quote from the Group judge? Given that dogs are presented very differently in SV type shows than in the UK or US all breed events, I still find this strange. Why would he have been handled any differently in the Group than he was in Open Dog and BOB? Apparently the young handler wasn't a problem for the GSD judge... anybody attend the show - and saw Zamp in all his classes - who can shed more light on this?

The TV coverage of the Breed judging was very brief so I cant comment on that, but then the Breed judge would be used to the SV way of handling. The Group Judge while aware of the SV style of handling, perhaps doenst agree with it. Who knows!!  I saw the Group Judging on TV and zamp looked superb but  the BIS ring is very different from an SV situation so he was quite restricted. IMO if the Judge thought so highly of him shouldnt she be judging him and not his handler!!!!!1

Yes I watched the Pastoral group live at Crufts.  Don't know how this dog is usually shown but in the group arena there are high seating stands all around with only one entrance and this is the direction he was pulling to.  There was obviously no opportunity for outside attraction from other directions, as the KC were all around.

It was therefore very difficult for his handler to move him with any fluidity and the way the dogs were positioned for individual examination meant he had to be facing in the wrong direction. 

Thanks for the above input. And yes, Brady Bee,you would have thought that it would have been all about the dog, not the handler. However - and I can't comment on the UK - in the US it is most definitely about the handler! Many a dog has ended up in the winners' circle here because it was handled by someone who is well known and respected, not because it was necessarily the best...... ( Heavily campaigning those same dogs doesn't hurt either.) So, surprise! - it comes down to money and politics..

I am actually surprised that the judge justified herself - most don't make their motives public. Makes you wonder if she took some heat for not putting up Zamp, or at least placing him. That was patently ridiculous...

 I did not think she did a good job handling in the group, it might have been lack off experience .Steve cox  had his bitch going very well when he got the b.o.b at crufts .i would have got a British handler to take zamp in as they know more what to expect in that situation and yes the judge is not a breed judge but she has judge all sort of dogs world wide,And crufts is THE show so every thing counts including the presentation of the dog.

I've had dogs very successfully shown in group at AKC shows on many occasions. Most truly competent group judges will ask the GSD handler to gait with his dog at the head of the group so that the dog will get a chance to "open up" and not be boxed in by smaller and/or less athletic dogs. Sometimes, the handler may request this variance.

Such a  judge will also allow the GSD handler to take the dog (on the "individual") in a circle instead of an L-shaped pattern which requires breaking the fleet-moving dog's stride while the handler is switching the leash from the left to the right hand in order to keep the dog from being covered by the handler.

A group judge should carry an image of each breed standard in his mind and place the dogs according to how each breed compares to its respective standard.

Unfortunately, at most all-breed shows, the dog is taught to walk into the stack using bait and to maintain that position forever. Then, the dog must animate to bait (occasionally a toy) with the handler standing in front of the dog. IOW, the dog is not alerting to anyone outside the ring. Handlers of other breeds also throw bait on the floor to alert their dogs. Naturally, the GSD (trained to track) may want to pick up these tasty morsels.

In order to keep the GSD from pulling toward the single gate to the ring, owners and  family members should not be standing anywhere near the gate when the dog enters the ring.

And, yes, in an ideal world, if the dog is not being unruly, the judge should judge the dog rather the handler.

So what is this judge saying? That one has to be prepared to pay the extortionate prices charged by well known handlers in order to win? I hear the likes of this judges favourite UK handler charges £250 for the CC & BOB, how much more for the group at Crufts I wonder !

Brady Bee got it in one when he said.... Judge the Dog not the Handler. As the Group Judge both saw and liked him enough to make comments such as : "WHAT A HEARTBREAKER, A MARVELLOUS DOG WHO SHOWS THE CORRECT GERMANIC TYPE WITH A FRONT TO DIE FOR, GREAT BODY AND OVERALL PROPORTIONS. ..... I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH HIS CONFORMATION AND FANTASTIC SIDE GAIT WHICH I SAW FOR A FEW STRIDES."  Surely that was enough to enable her to judge the dog and not let a superb specimen suffer from the inexperience of his handler ?

To my mind blaming the handler is when an excuse is required to promote what was probably already prearranged when a better specimen enters the ring.

Zamp and his handler, the 14 year old daughter of the joint owner, and their family, have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO PROVE, AT CRUFTS, OR ANY OTHER DOG SHOW ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
Zamp is a SUPERSTAR, AND A SUPER PRODUCER.  That it the ULTIMATE, the PINNICLE, IN OUR BREED, absolutely.

Yes, but if the judge really made those comments in public via a dog paper, then she should never be allowed to judge again at that level. She obviously was not brave enough to promote the best dog( Zamp was easily the outstanding dog of those pulled out in the group) because it would have been unusual in modern times to give it to a GSD.

And yes when she has judged Gsd's herself at champ shows, we all know the handler she puts up.