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by pod on 18 March 2009 - 09:03
Xephyr, I've heard various explanations as to why the Belyeav foxes developed white markings. It could be down to founder effect, where the genes responsible just happened to be in the captive bred popluation and closed gene pool breeding just brought this to expression. I've also heard the theory that there is some neurological aspect of the S gene and selection for tameness inadvertently selected for white markings also.
Also there's the fact that domestication of vitually any species sees a development of white markings and it's said that a relaxation of selectional criteria for natural survival is responsible for allowing 'undesirable' traits to surface.
Also there's the fact that domestication of vitually any species sees a development of white markings and it's said that a relaxation of selectional criteria for natural survival is responsible for allowing 'undesirable' traits to surface.
by Incavale on 18 March 2009 - 09:03
Evidence of what one fox is associating with & why
by katjo74 on 18 March 2009 - 20:03
Thanks for expounding, Pod-excellent! :o)
by Incavale on 28 March 2009 - 10:03
Our little 'panda' pup is 3 weeks old today. A couple of photos taken earlier in the day
by luvdemdogs on 28 March 2009 - 16:03
Awwweee.... It will be cool to see how the colors evolve as she ages. :)
by windwalker18 on 28 March 2009 - 17:03
OMG!!! Now they have Panda CHOWS too!! LOL
by luvdemdogs on 28 March 2009 - 17:03
hahahahahaha! They did a GREAT job with the dye!! It looks fabulous!
by GSDGenetics on 28 March 2009 - 21:03
All the speculations and negativity regarding the Panda shepherds is for naught. Franka was tested by geneticists and it was confirmed that her white markings were due to a spontaneous mutation!
The gene responsible for the solid white GSD is totally unrelated to white spotting genes. In fact, a white GSD is genetically the same as a dark dog EXCEPT the white gene acts as if a sheet were dropped over that dog, hiding its colors and pattern. Bred to a colored dog, the white parent passes genes for its own colors/patterns to its progeny. This is why you can breed a black to a white and get agoutis, saddle dogs, etc, instead of only black or white, because the white is on a different locus from the color/pattern series (agouti series). White progeny of white to a colored dog will inherit color/pattern genes from each parent the same as a colored puppy does from two colored parents. The only difference is that the dog's genetic colors and pattern is masked by the white gene.
Whites that have reddish tan to orange tinges in their coats are from what I've seen in my research, usually genetic reds or rich tans (I don't say always coz sure as I do, someone will find an exception somewhere, nature always loves to make exceptions to her own rules.) Whiter whites almost always are genetically creams and silvers.
Whereas the white gene gets blamed for causing lighter pigment, it's far more likely that when breeders select for whiter whites, they unknowingly select dogs that are genetically creams and silvers as opposed to reds and tans. I've personally seen a very faded black and tan saddle marked bitch, one whose saddle was also heavily "salt and peppered", bred to a white that had the orangish tinge of color (usually most pronounced on the ears), and the resulting litter was strikingly black and red, much richer in coloration than their dam was.
The GSD's GROUND COLOR is actually the red/tan/cream/silver color and the BLACK (or its dilutions of blue and liver) are actually the MARKING COLOR. The black is the color that distributes over the ground color in the typical agouti (which is a much more accurate term than either "sable" or "grau"), saddle pattern dogs, blankets, bicolors and solid blacks. I'm seeking more data on solid blacks because I've seen some interesting variations in color development of blacks. Quite often, the black of a solid black doesn't quite completely cover the ground color of the dog, resulting in the common leg shadings or "bleedthrough" of the dog's ground color. A black with reddish leg shadings for instance, is genetically red.
AKC needs to change the way they present color and pattern in their registrations, because colors and patterns are separate. I have an outline on my website, that I did long ago of one good way to present registration forms so a person can accurately register their GSD of any color and pattern of the breed.
http://www.geocities.com/sahiela2/colors.html
I need to redo it one of these days, because I did it before I realized that the black is actually the marking color that spreads over the ground color which is the red/tan/cream/silver.
The gene responsible for the solid white GSD is totally unrelated to white spotting genes. In fact, a white GSD is genetically the same as a dark dog EXCEPT the white gene acts as if a sheet were dropped over that dog, hiding its colors and pattern. Bred to a colored dog, the white parent passes genes for its own colors/patterns to its progeny. This is why you can breed a black to a white and get agoutis, saddle dogs, etc, instead of only black or white, because the white is on a different locus from the color/pattern series (agouti series). White progeny of white to a colored dog will inherit color/pattern genes from each parent the same as a colored puppy does from two colored parents. The only difference is that the dog's genetic colors and pattern is masked by the white gene.
Whites that have reddish tan to orange tinges in their coats are from what I've seen in my research, usually genetic reds or rich tans (I don't say always coz sure as I do, someone will find an exception somewhere, nature always loves to make exceptions to her own rules.) Whiter whites almost always are genetically creams and silvers.
Whereas the white gene gets blamed for causing lighter pigment, it's far more likely that when breeders select for whiter whites, they unknowingly select dogs that are genetically creams and silvers as opposed to reds and tans. I've personally seen a very faded black and tan saddle marked bitch, one whose saddle was also heavily "salt and peppered", bred to a white that had the orangish tinge of color (usually most pronounced on the ears), and the resulting litter was strikingly black and red, much richer in coloration than their dam was.
The GSD's GROUND COLOR is actually the red/tan/cream/silver color and the BLACK (or its dilutions of blue and liver) are actually the MARKING COLOR. The black is the color that distributes over the ground color in the typical agouti (which is a much more accurate term than either "sable" or "grau"), saddle pattern dogs, blankets, bicolors and solid blacks. I'm seeking more data on solid blacks because I've seen some interesting variations in color development of blacks. Quite often, the black of a solid black doesn't quite completely cover the ground color of the dog, resulting in the common leg shadings or "bleedthrough" of the dog's ground color. A black with reddish leg shadings for instance, is genetically red.
AKC needs to change the way they present color and pattern in their registrations, because colors and patterns are separate. I have an outline on my website, that I did long ago of one good way to present registration forms so a person can accurately register their GSD of any color and pattern of the breed.
http://www.geocities.com/sahiela2/colors.html
I need to redo it one of these days, because I did it before I realized that the black is actually the marking color that spreads over the ground color which is the red/tan/cream/silver.
by Incavale on 06 April 2009 - 02:04
She is now 4 weeks old, but wasn't feeling particularly co-operative
by katjo74 on 06 April 2009 - 04:04
That's amazing, Incavale-thank you for sharing the pics & documenting her growth!
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