Showline dogs and bloodlines that WORK the best - Page 1

Hello - I am new to the showlines, and learning =) I wanted to get information and feedback on the SHOWLINE dogs and bloodlines that produce the best sport/working dogs for Schutzhund with good nerves and drives. I know some are known to be "soft" and not as solid in the Protection field. I don't want this to turn into a battle against the Working vs showline dogs...I want soley information on SHOWLINE dogs. I have two gorgeous showline male pups that are just balls of energy and drive, and will be on the lookout for a nice female pup in the near future once I get these boys underway with training (don't want to train 3 young ones at the same time!! lol) And would like this information to help guide me in the right direction =) Thank you

Hm. I've got a nice confident show line female out of Ursus Batu/Ernie Hofjagerhaus-that combo seems nice. And I recently purchased a Kirschental show lines blk/red male from Kirschental Kennel in Germany who is also full of pep & confidence-he will chase the ball, tug the rope toy,romp with the kids, etc. just like what I would expect and want-he's a Sherry Kirschental/Zeckie Kirschental son (which is a combo of Yasko Farbenspeil/Rikkor Bad-Boll). Kirschental(Karl Fuller) produces and sells very nice calliber puppies from top breedings, both show and combo show/working pedigrees. MANY of their progeny has went on to be VA or V-rated and SchH or HGH titled. They are top notch people and I would recommend them. So show lines with workability do exist. Also, female puppy selection(choice) will also matter of course, too. A more active bouncing female would probably be a better choice toward drives than one who loves to just crawl into your lap, wag a tail a few times, and be content to lay there being loved on(nothing wrong with that but it's just too laid back for what you're wanting). Position of pick in a litter would be very important in getting what you want and not what's left. Knowing your bloodline(s) and what they are capable of producing via research and time is the first step toward picking bloodlines that mesh well. For example, Ursus Batu seems to go well with Esko Danischen Hof blood without too much top-heavy line-breeding. Compair your bloodine(s) with other breedings out there and their results. Then you can consider following in proven footsteps of past knowledgeable breedings. I have yet to see anyone come up with the majical 'perfect breeding' because breeding is not a perfected science. Do bloodline research, learn the pros and cons to the blood lines you've already got, then select something that will harmonize or compliment what you already have, and preferrably help with the 'faults' you learn with time that your males have. You apparently found these boys with nice drive, so there also has to be females with nice drives out there as well. Best wishes with your search.

Working ability crops up from all lines at one time or another. The problem with many are the transition from prey to serious. Some break down at this point. They just don't seem to have the low gear that keeps them engaged through thick and thin. Dogs I have seen that do have the ability to stay engaged are descendants of Amigo Belgier, Quartz being my favorite and Vando Moorbeck. These are two dogs that seem to consistently produce the best ability in the conformation lines.

I am a big fan of Quartz as I have a daughter and two grandsons from him. Very good stable nerve! excellent temperament, great love of the ball. However, only one of those pups shows any promise for actual working ability in regard to bite work. However, I have found that this line matures slowly. I like the Ursus line very very much, as well. I have a few dogs with Ursus as grandfather or great grandfather. There is a bit of an edge in a couple of those dogs. Nothing shakes them, rattles them. Conformation isn't the very best, but I will take the solid nerve and working stability over the pretty any day. Often times, the biggest determining factor in whether the dog is able to work, has to do with how it is trained. Having a helper that knows how to build CORRECT foundation is the key. Show line often lack good solid nerve. Building a good solid foundation for the dog is major key. If the foundation is there the dog has something to fall back on when the nerves get in the way.

Mutz von der Pelztierfarm bloodline through Cello von der Römerau through Hill vom Farbenspiel produces very good working ability too. We have Hill’s son and you can see a video of his NASS courage test here: http://www.vonlotta.com/images/videos/Yash2007NASS2.wmv Here is his page: http://www.vonlotta.com/yash.html And his pedigree: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/426989.html His first litter is 6 weeks old, and these guys are INSANE! (Well, 6 of them) The other 4 are more like what I’m used to seeing in showline pups, but very outgoing and playful too.

http://www.vonlotta.com/images/videos/Yash2007NASS2.wmv Trying to paste a working link here, sorry.

We have a showline dog in our club who I have trained since he was a very young dog - Valee vom haus Tyson. He is one of the best working dog from showlines that I have seen. In one of the recent trials, he scored 100 points in protection at SchH3 level. Recently, I had a chance to meet and see Mexx vom Aurilius in Germany. This dog also has a V rating at the Seiger show, super nice working character, very low ZW, and very good working temperament. Ajay Singh www.ajaysingh.com

I have been told, by someone who really puts great pride in working showline dogs, that to ensure a good working female (emphasis is on female) there should be Ursus and/or Esko in the pedigree. Now, there is a whole myriad or other things to consider. My experience is limited but I am investing my aspirations in these lines. I have an Ursus son and had a litter of 10 with him and all of the pups could/would work. They wound up mostly in pet homes and have done well there also as companion dogs with very clear heads. I have been looking for Esko in a female and found a top bitch line bred on Amigo (through Quartz). This, when matched with my male, would result in an Esko/Ursus breeding which should produce the best of both worlds. No advertisement here because this is a long way off. But I feel committed to producing working showline shepherds that can do it all. That is because I myself am very interested in training and working my dogs and do not enjoy being embarrased on the field (fortunately I have not had to experience this). It is certainly a very special feeling to know your dog is one of the best not only in show but also in the work. I don't know how others can handle being in front of a crowd judging the character of your dog at a National show and not be sure their dog outs or will bite. I was fortunate in raising such a puppy and I wish this good fortune on anyone seriously intending to work or show their dogs. One just hopes the homes are there for this kind of breeding. That is the biggest problem. Have a showline that can really put out is a nice thing, but you have to have the "working" person that wants to train it and also see his/her potential.

I know an Ulk Arlett son, that in his prime, was as good as any working line dog.

Agree with Ajay. Look at the Quartz line, get good information from someone who has those lines in their breeding porgrams, trained and handled them. Those are the people you want info from, not ones that have never trained.