Elbows and Nero Norbactal - Page 2

from my understanding there was no elbow requirement when the Nero thing erupted. What bothered me was that if the breed guardians wanted to judge elbows, why not then start getting more dogs done, why all of a sudden was there this mess with the need to eliminate all Nero progeny? ( Why Nero specifically?). As far as I knew the allegation was that a vet treated a dog with the call name "Nero" for some sort of elbow issue. It was alleged that " Nero the infamous was that dog". But nothing concrete, I never heard mention of what exact condition was treated either, or if it was an injury or genetic. My understanding was the Ban was to be about the fact the dog underwent " surgical alteration" and was then shown. or was it elbows? Anyone know the facts? Your welcome Sunsilver, I have the red books plus a few hundred pounds of Reviews, Quarterlies, SV mags and such, plus some nice original pics sent from breeders when I was making picture peds before this site existed. Now that it exists I hope I can get all that info in this database but it will likely take 10 years or more...lol If you need something specific, I will do my best to look for it for you and get that up first. you can pm me also if you want stuff in private.

Thank you for the offer, Jo-Ann! I'll send you a PM.

Hi! Jo-Ann, I'm also very greatful for your help, my part American showlines girl, Carlton's Kalie vom Foxfire, has a few holes left in her pedigree on the database, but I am so grateful to you for filling in some of the blanks! I filled in as far back in her pedigree as I could go with the breeders help, & it took forever, but eventually we had to let it go; so I was SO excited to check back & find some of her ancestors were suddenly linked! So Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you! Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, I'll just back out quietly now, thanks again! jackie harris

FerrumGSDs, concerning the timing of appearance of the S.V.'s elbow examination scheme, I personally think (and could be wrong) it had nothing to do with the rumours surrounding the Nero Nöbachtal, and we have all heard various stories of why he was removed from the stud book; including the rumour of clandestine surgery (did it really happen, and if so what wasit?) and the rumour of political issues because of who previously owned him and who bought him. The "truth"-wow I have no idea. Brittany, it is but recent that the S.V. required elbow examinations after many years of stubborn hesitation. Good thing? Yes it is, as the inheritability of elbow dysplasie is thought to higher than that of hip dysplasie. Have there been any consequences of producing (and successively producing) Nero progeny? None to date of that I know. Regards, Bob-O

Despite good intentions enforcing written rules, Germany lost an important dog.

I agree Dog1. He could have been Seiger. I have watched his progeny with great interest and am pleased to see many, many of his progeny rate with clear elbows. There are several excellent Nero sons in the US I would be happy to breed to. I'm pretty sure anyone who researches a GSD before buying one should already know damn well ED and HD and it crops up in every line. Pull up almost any 5 generation pedigree and you can find a dog who has, at one time or another, produced a dog with a bad hip or elbow. But common sense is lacking when you put yourself on the pedestal of self righteous ignorance.

Dog1 and KCzaja, I agree with both of you. The Nero was a wonderful example of the breed with a temperament and conformation that is often overlooked in the world of judging and awarded to dogs (in my opinion) who do not present themselves as better examples. Regards, Bob-O

Bob, What's interesting is to see how the situation evolved. The camp was split. There were those that said 'rules are rules' and lets boil them in oil which is what was intended when the information about Nero was presented. There were those that thought there were some pretty good dogs out there after him, better think twice before we act too quickly. The ban was implemented and let me say there were some excellent dogs available super cheap. Some held on to what they had as it was simply too good to let go until the other side had their say. In the end there was enough influence to reach a comprimise. There was still some hold over by those that fell into the first catagory and Nero's reputation began with all the hoopla that created his negative reputation. Years went by and we now see the statistics of his offspring and the quality from him. I have seen those that were against him in the beginning submit to the quality of his production in the end and place his descendents in the front of the class where they belong. What's interesting is to look ack at those that were for and against the ban. The ones against the ban I knew were some of Germany's top breeders. They must have seen something worth fighting for to have put forth the effort to keep him alive in the breed.

From what I understood ( could be wrong? ), Nero was never proven to have elbow displasia. Only elbow surgery, that was kept a secret for a while. Supposedly the surgery was for bone fragments? But the SV did not believe them. Can anyone shed some light as to this being correct or not? Debby ebinezer052899@yahoo.com http://castlebrookshepherds.net

What does the SV, as well as the AKC, have to say about having an operation on a dog to improve the show-a-bility of the dog? What are the exceptions? I think none. ecs Hello Sue B.