Interesting liver pups - Page 2

Thank you. Could that happen too if there are mating two really with great pigment dogs over 4 or 5 generations? I think - that cannot happen ???

"Could that happen too if there are mating two really with great pigment dogs over 4 or 5 generations? I think - that cannot happen ???" Sorry, Senta, I believe that you are inaccurate in you assumption. The only way to eliminate off-colors is by not breeding known carriers. Personally, I'm not aware of any health issues with blue/liver GSD's. However, I have seen skin problems in red Dobe's. Just because this has be noted from time to time doesn't mean that it's more prevalent than in the general population.

Kalibeck said in another thread that she sees skin problems with blues and livers more often than with the other colours of GSD. (She works in a vet clinic.)

I've worked at plenty of vet clinics. The fact is that livers/blues are rarely seen--period. Perhaps it's coincidental that, when presented, these off-colors may have skin problems. The truth of the matter is that many GSD's of all colors may have skin problems--most of which are not correctly diagnosed/treated by veterinarians. The common GSD skin problems involve Staph pyoderma and flea allergy dermatitis--with a few exceptions. The vets almost invariably want to do pricey testing and treatments for food/inhallant allergies. OMG, if you feed raw, that must be the culprit. Better switch them over to Science Diet or Purina ASAP. OTH, livers/blues may be sold for pet prices to the pet-buying public who may not provide optimal care/diets.

I've heard varying opinions on the skin problems: some say yes, some say no. I really see no reason why skin and coat colour should make the dog more prone to problems. About the only problem I've heard verified by veterinarians related to skin and coat colour is that dogs with pink skin can get sunburned, especially on their noses. Also, certain breeds like Shar-peis and Rhodesian Ridgebacks are prone to ingrown hairs and possible infections as a result.

@Louise M. Penery"Sorry, Senta, I believe that you are inaccurate in you assumption. The only way to eliminate off-colors is by not breeding known carriers." Could you please explain me that - so that I can understand it right???

Senta, each dog has two sets of genes. It gets one set from the father, and one from the mother. The genes for liver and blue colour are recessive. This means they will only show up if the dog gets one from each parent. But both parents must be carriers of the recessive gene for this to happen. (Or, of course, liver coloured themselves!) Let's say a large T codes for tan colour and a small t for liver... Father: Tt (black and tan) Possible Offspring: tt (liver) Mother: Tt (black and tan) TT (tan) Tt (tan, but a carrier of the liver gene) Here's what happens if you mate a liver color dog to a carrier: Father: tt (liver) Mother: Tt (black and tan carrier) Possible offspring: Liver (tt) (50% chance) or black and tan (Tt) (50% chance) So, if you find out your bitch is a carrier of the liver gene, the only way to prevent the gene from being transmitted to future generations is to spay her. That's because some of her pups will be Tt (carriers). Since the frequency of the liver gene is so low, she may never be mated to another carrier, and produce a liver pup, and you will never know that she has the recessive gene, and is passing it on. And BTW, is there a way of testing to see if a dog is a carrier of this gene?

Okay, that didn't turn out very well, due to the software ignoring my spacing! Try again... Father: Tt (black and tan) Mother: Tt (black and tan) Possible offspring: tt (liver) Tt (black and tan, but a carrier of the recessive liver gene.)

If a male or a female has actually produced liver/blue, the dog is a "known" carrier--without the need for DNA testing. Simply speaking, one should avoid breeding two dogs of known carrier status to each other. On the other hand, a carrier, with otherwise good credentials, should not be eliminated from the genepool. Doing the latter would restrict the genepool. For example, when two dogs (could be dogs with rich pigment) carrying the simple autsomal blue recessive gene are mated, roughly 25% of the resulting litter would blue. Statiscally speaking (if the breeding was done 100 times), 50% of the pups could be carriers. The remaining 25% are not carriers--they will not produce blues even if bred to a carrier.

Sunsilver, I believe you are thinking of Blitzen. I am a Hospice nurse, & actually have never seen a blue or liver GSD, although I am very interested in the genetics involved. I know in people albinism has a well documented host of disorders that accompany it, but I really don't know if that corresponds in any way with off or fading pigments, I wouldn't think so, as off pigments are still pigments, whereas albinism is no pigment whatsoever. jackie harris