what makes a dog/bitch a good producer? - Page 1

just wondering what the qualifications are to be able to label a dog a good producer?

hip rating, structure, conformation, titles, temperment , etc.  all being considered,  i guess the real question would be how many litters must a bitch/stud produce for you to consider them a good producer? 

knowing that a male can sire WAY more litters than a bitch can have, does this lead us to the assumption that males produce themselves more than females?

you see so many advertisements from "TOP MALE", but not so much about the female.  are we forgetting that puppies get half their dna from the mother, not too mention she is the one who raises and imprints them for the first weeks of their lives?

waiting too hear what everyone thinks/knows.

john

John, I find your timing on this exceptional, as I had the same exact thought earlier today!

I wondered does "good producer" mean there are a lot of pups, or is it the quality of the pups? If a female has 10 pups in a litter vs 5 pups, is she a good producer?

I too, anxiously await the responses of others.

I dare to answer.

ok, to me top producing female is something I don't see .  (usual males have that ad name)

But, if I was to be interested in buying a puppy I would like to know what quality the female passes to her offspring. Whether it be show qualities or working abilities. (preferable both of those)

Same is considered with hunting dogs. People want a lineage of proof that there is working ability. Unless, you want a house pet. That usually doesn't matter to the buyer.

Of course, the fact of good hip rating on both of the parents is crucial. I wouldn't want a show, work or pet home to have a dyplasic dog.period!

deeswolf, i wasnt worried about the amount of pups a bitch produces (although i do know of breeders getting rid of bitches who only have one or two pups each time).  what bothers me is so much is put on the male.  if you think about some of the top males Mink, Fero, Aly, Asko, etc. etc., it seems they get a lot of the credit.  what i would be more interested in knowing, is how they would have produced if breed to the same female multiple times.  would the percentage of really good offspring fall?  some of these males have 800+ progeny listed (not as hard to find the good ones, compared to a male that only has 50 or so offspring)  but very seldom do you see them breed to the same bitch.  granted you do see repeat breedings, more so here in the states then in europe.

it would be interesting to hear what other breeders say.

matthews,,,the hard part is finding out exactly what the female is passing on to pups with the limited number of time she can be breed

john

When you see the ads say proven producer does that only just mean they have had litters weather it's a male or a bitch?  I wondered the same thing...how do you interpret a "proven producer"?  Would it mean that their offspring have received titles, are being shown, are doing police or SAR work?  No one really goes into details on how the dog is "proven".  I'm interested in hearing from the breeders how they interpret that...

The terms   " proven producer " means that you are buying a pup from a bitch or if its an advertisement for stud ", that this male ,also, has a record of producing progheny.     A gsd that has already had a litter or litters born to or sired by..... nothing more.....then you ask the owner , what are the progheny's records....are they titled , being titled, in show, in pet homes, or explain what you are listing these litters born previously to be deemed worthy of.......

If a stud or female is older, than tests are sometimes agreed upon to prove that the are   still    able to produce.....Dont want to waste time and  money  breeding ,,,,,,,if they cant pass ....

Because there are so many interpretations of "good producer" one should ask the person making the statement.  "What makes this dog a good producer?" 

In my mind a good producer is one who when the offspring are elderly one can say the dog produced longevity, health, good conformation and excellent temperament.  Our best producers are unknown until they are long gone. 

Isn't that the truth, Sue Ann!

I see the term-- good producer -- as something that can be evaluated in immediate, intermediate, long term, and final stages/goals.  From when 1)  the litter is still on the mother, 2)  to when the offspring are being trained or are fitting into their family with their owners, 3)  when the offspring are proving themselves in their work (whatever that work may be, though an entire litter of low drive family pets would not be impressive to me) and some going on to produce successful puppies of their own, then to 4)  the final end goal-- to quote Sue Ann:  "when the offspring are elderly one can say the dog produced longevity, health, good conformation and excellent temperament." 

One thing I don't see is calling a dog who has a lot of puppies a "good producer".  It doesn't matter how many puppies the dog has if they are not a good litter in temperament, ability and health overall.  

Veronica

Can anyone tell me if there is a definitive difference between the terms "good producer"  and "Proven Producer"?

What should you expect when offered a bitch for sale when the term "Proven Producer" is used in the sales pitch from a Broker, when your out looking to buy a breedable female? What should be expected of the bitch sold with this descriptive term?