"Tiffany / Wal-Mart" breeding - Page 7

Joe Blow only wants to breed pets without titles? Okay, that's fine, but don't tell me they shouldn't do health testing either, because you have enough people complaining about how their 300 dollar pet came down with a preventable genetic disorder and had to spend thousands of dollars with a veterinarian just to watch their dog put down in the end. Yes, it happens to good breeders too, and those that charge 2000 dollars for puppies, but at least one who does the proper health certifications, OFA, etc., is trying to prevent it.

Fact is, if you want a good pet, you can get them for cheap. If you want a German Shepherd, but only want to pay 300 dollars for it, then you're going to have to deal with the risks that generally come with that price tag and you really shouldn't complain because the way I see it, anyone griping like that just wants the breed on a whim.

D.H.:  I don't really care about winning.  I care about making others think.  I just want to initiate a dialog and present another side.  Sometimes I present and argue the other side of a subject that I don't even agree with what I am arguing for.  So many threads on this sight begin and end with BYB's are the ruination of the GSD, etc.  An argumentcould be made that the BYB could actually be the savior of the breed.  How many on this site have lamented about all of the limited lines (Jeck, Ursus, etc.) that are "out there".  The back yard breeders have GSD show lines without roach backs.  They have a world of genetic diversity "out there". Some good and some bad.  Just as the non BYB's.

AKV:  I would argue with you (I love to argue with you), but I don't really understand the point you were making with your last post, in relation to the debate I was having with D.H. (which she won (see I don't care about winning)),so I will just agree.

Pup:  Am I right to assume you meant to type "Fact is, if you want a good pet, you "can't" (instead of "can") get them for cheap".  If so, I and about 620 million or so pet owners could disagree strongly.  I have stated previously on this site that I have 9 dogs, three of which cost 2 grand a piece, yet I have consistently stated that my best dogs are from the dog pound, not the expensive ones I purchased.  Could I have just been so lucky to get those good pound dogs and at the same time, could I have been so unlucky to get three W. German imports, from three different breeders, that are not as good as my pound dogs?  I also assume you meant to type "just wants "to" (instead of "the") breed on a whim".  No one breeds on a whim as I see it.  They buy an AKC dog, and figure out who to mate it with, then wait until the female is in heat, etc.  No one got out of bed today and thought "Hey, I think I will breed my GSD today. 

I'm spoiling for a good debate here guys and gals, but ya'll are letting me down.

Can someone answer my previous question (or are we done?):

Why do YOU breed?

"We at least do agree (although for different reasons) that if someone has to save up for a puppy, then they probably should not have one. "  Do Right statement copied and pasted.

I didn't think this was at all correct, though it was only a very tiny part of the discussion.  These people can just simply be careful with their money.  They save and keep money in a savings account for emergencies.  Most people I knew were savers when I was a kid.  Old farm guys who'd seem all poor in their worn overalls, then whip out a wad of cash big enough to choke a horse from their pocket to buy something they really wanted or needed.

Veronica

Do Right, why did you just write an entire paragraph about something I didn't say? You changed my statements and then argued with me about something I didn't say? That absolutely makes no sense.

If you want a good pet, you can get them for cheap. That IS what I said. Someone who isn't willing to pay the basic price for a good dog probably just wants THE breed on a whim. Like they want a new toy that they don't really need.

Your corrections don't even make with the context of my sentences.

Pup:  Okay.  Whatever you say.   But, your statements confuse me.  Whether you purchase a cheap pet or a high priced dog, you are going to have to deal with the potential problems that may come with them.  Everyone who knows much about dogs should know that the "mutts" of the world, have fewer health problems than purebreds.  Anyway, a cheap GSD could be a good pet, which is something that you "seem" to not agree with (being careful here to not put words into your mouth).  What I see on this particular web site is a lot of owners complaining about the high priced dog they purchased that had health, tempement and other problems.  I have never seen someone on this site complain about the cheap dog they bought, and the problems they encountered with it.  So, can we assume that someone who pays a lot less, expects a lot less, thus, they are satisfied with what they bought for how much they paid.  If we assume that, then we can also assume that those who purchase the higher priced GSD's, are the only ones complaining, because of how much they paid.  Then, that would mean, those who buy cheap GSD's are more satisfied with their purchases than those who purchased higher priced GSD's.  So, if you want consistency in the satisfaction of your puppy buyers, breed on the cheap and sell on the cheap.  Less headaches, less unsatisfied buyers and more satisfied puppy owners.  As a matter of fact, I could argue that if someone pays less for a puppy, that leaves them more money for vet bills and other things to make their new puppies life better.  If I save for three years, 2 grand, to buy a top notch, top bred puppy, how much money am I going to have for the surprises or even for the day to day necessities of a puppy.  But then comes the old argument that if you can't afford the puppy AND the other things, then go to the pound.  The haves, have the good dogs and the have-nots, have the pound puppies.  Sound about right?

 Also, I did not change your statements. I simply ASKED if that was what you meant to say.  Apparently you are not very good with sentence structure or you think "out of the box", and do not explain your thoughts well enough to allow me to decipher them.  I have been called an idiot many times, but no one has ever called me stupid.  In any event.  Sorry for misunderstanding your writings.

QUOTE

Can someone answer my previous question (or are we done?):

Why do YOU breed?

I have an answer for this, although I haven't actually bred a litter yet. I WILL be breeding because I know what I want in a GSD. Temperment, character, health, drive, size, everything. I am NOT finding this very easily from other breeders. Not that this is a bad thing, it just seems that they have different goals in mind. It seems that what I want isn't sold very often, if at all, and if it is then it is accompanied by a HEFTY price tag. I think there are a lot of people that want the same things in a GSD that I want, and can't/won't pay $?k's for a gamble on a puppy. I see nothing wrong with someone who doesn't want to pay $2-3k  for a pet puppy! A lot of those people would think, " Why would I spend that much for a puppy?" (Assuming he/she has that much $ already) They may think, " I can spend a fraction of that, and save the rest to go towards any unforseen things/vet bills that may come up."

Oh but wait, those breeders that are charging $?ks have a super contract, for 2-3 years!

Let's face it, for the average Joe Blow that just wants a beautiful, healthy GSD to add to their family, contracts aren't very useful. 99.9% of these people become attached from day one, and could never think about returning their new family member no matter what. Contracts are more useful for people who are viewing this purchase as an investment, and have the ability to deal with their end of the contract- ie. returning said pup or dog if something is wrong.

So, I am starting with the very best example (IMO) of a GSD that I could afford. Healthy, even tempered, solid character, good drive,V conformation. I will breed to a suitable male (already chosen). I will charge less than $1k a pup. I will try to educate my potential clients to the best of my ability, about health issues, temperment issues, and the gamble that goes along with buying a puppy.  I will take a pup back, if they can't/don't want to keep it.

Just my opinion,

Theresa

DH,

You make some good points in your many posts.  However, I'm disappionted that you made jabs at my friend Dave.  You don't know him, you don't know his situation, and you don't know the hoops I lept through to try to find him a mid-level priced pup.  I did search on-line for Aussies in shelters and rescue organizations and was not successful in finding one anywhere near our area.  It was not a question of him "waiting to save up another $600".  I meant it quite literally when I said he had two choices:  $1200 or $200.  There was nothing else available that I could find in about a 200 mile radius.

I'm glad that he got the pup "right now".  He's going through a nasty divorce and it's a very difficult time for him.  He loves that puppy and she's a great comfort to him during this dark time in his life.

Now carry on and play nice with others.

Yvette

Sheesh:  an excellent post.  Just about the answer I would give if someone asked.  Although I don't breed (yet), by probably will.

D.H.  The no-prize is in the mail.  In the same batch I mailed the twenty bucks to DessertRanger for his handsome voting thingy.

Maybe that makes me more of a Kohl's/Target breeder wannabe????