"Tiffany / Wal-Mart" breeding - Page 4

Elitist dog breeders, trainers, owners, etc, think that "if you can't afford to buy a properly bred and tested dog" then you shouldn't have one of these and should go get a mutt from the dog pound and be satisfied with it, because that is all you deserve.  The dog has served man and stood in front of, beside of and followed man for a very long time, and the test they passed was their loyalty, forgiveness for our assinine ways, comfort they gave us in the dark alone with our fears and the peace of mind when we were gone to work and our family was back at the house with "REX".

I would take a dog like "Max" the recently discussed shot by the police dog, than most of the high bred, titled dogs for sale on this site.  He did his job to the ultimate (or he was just plain executed) which is a possibility but not likely.

Those that think that "if you ain't breeding to improve the breed" are less than human scum, only out for a buck, do not understand that somewant to breed Hilda or Rex, in the same way they want their daughter and son-in-law to have a child.  May be that it is not good for the breed and it may be that they are going to end up with puppies that are not up to the quality that others are producing, but hey, my own grandchild may grow up to be the Pope, or a mass murderer.  Who knows.  You do the best you can with what you have to work with and that is all you can do.  Unless you just do without.

IF I ever breed my dogs, they will have the bloodlines of some of the most famous showline dogs around, and will be given the best head start I can while they are puppies in my care.  But I will never ask for more than three hundred dollars for them, because what is most important for me is that they get the "right" home.  How many have puppies up for sale for 1500 to 2000 and ask a couple of basic questions via email or over the phone, and then after receiving payment, ship the puppy off to far away parts of the world, but these breeders would be the same breeders belittleing the "back yard breeders", who's parent dogs are not titled and being bred.  It is not the "back yard breeder" only, that are chasing the almighty dollar.  All breeders claim that they are looking for good homes for their pups, but having shopped around for puppies from all over the world, I found many that were ready to send me a pup, not knowing me from Adam, just as soon as I paid.  They asked some questions of course, but hey, I'm 54 years old.  I know how to lie with the best of them.  If you claim that you ask so much for your pups to "weed" out the potential bad owners, I don't buy it.  It is just for the money in many (but not all) cases.  I know many on this site are not just out for the bucks,  but check the ads here and you will see more that are, with their titled dogs (remember the poster above who bought a so called titled dog that "knew nothing") out for the bucks, just like a BYB.

Do Right, we are on some of the same page here, except for your take on prices....I think it is all in what people WANT to afford, and they can afford what you think is important. 

A family that "can't afford to spend more than $300 on a dog"  will go out and pay $1000 AT LEAST for a new living room set.  You can get a nice used couch and chair for a lot less...why is the couch that someone's butt sits on worth more than the dog that puts up with the "brats putting pencils in his ears and defends the family from the guy that kicks in the door"?  That is backwards thinking. 

So, you think people should not ask more than $300 for a pup that costs them much more than that to produce, in actual money invested alone, not counting any labor?  

My husband and I ALREADY contribute to several charities. 

Veronica

Doright gets it right again.  The role of family pet and protector has always been the GSDs greatest role.  We once had one nice male who used to count our kids when we would go to the beach or fireworks and as we would pack up to leave he would start barking until all the kids came to where we were. He would periodically check the kids at night to see if they were okay.  What a priviledge to be able to have a GSD like this. And there are a lot of them like this with good temperament if you know where to get them. 

yeah, my pet is our protector. as he gets older, he is more watchful of us all. when we have great nieces/nephews, grandkids etc, angus will try to monitor all the kids. he will play, but has to stop and check on all the kidlets from time to time. our bel mal wants to play and sometimes she will herd kids if they try to run around too much. angus especially loves my great niece who is ten. if she sleeps over, he sleeps with her and follows her everywhere. he's done this since he was about 6 months old. he even lays outside the bathroom door til she comes out. he's very good w/any kids, but she is special to him. so, he's "just" a pet, but worth so so much more than we paid for him.

If someone is not willing to pay more than $300 for a pup, what happens the first time a vet bill for $500-$600 comes in?  Usually the dog lands in a shelter or is PTS.  True many people can't afford a thousand or more for a good dog that they would like to have.  Well I would like to have a new Mercedes but I can't afford one.  That's life.

AKV:  My point is not that people who ask more than 300 are ripping off someone.  Ask whatever you want and let the market work.  My point is that breeders who do use untitled breeding dogs, therefore not investing as much as those that do work at titleing dogs, should not be "so looked down upon" by those that do go the "extra mile".  An economical breeder does not mean a bad breeder, IMO.  A family pet could come from lesser tested stock and be bought for 200 dollars and be like Rin Tin Tin to it's family.  Yes, some will spend 1000 on a sofa and some will spend 47,000 on a car, but will not spend 600 on a dog because, well, it is a dog.  That is the way some think.  Yes, some will balk at a 1000 dollar vet bill if it comes up.  No question about it.  I have been there myself and had a dog put to sleep because of the cost of the suggested surgery.  Am I proud of it.  No.  But I was a young man just starting out with a new family and had to make a call of saving my dog or providing for my first born.  I regret it to this day, but I just could not afford it at the time.  I was in the Military and could not get another job.  I was not allowed to.  It has been 30 years since then and I have spent thousands and thousands on my pets since then, and have rescued dozens of dogs from bad situations, probably because of having Duke put to sleep.  He was a Dobermann, purchased for $100.00 and was wonderful.  I put him to sleep instead of spending about one thousand or more to try and save him.

But I digress.  Those that think that a dog is a dog, does not mean that the dog will be mistreated.  It means that the dog is a pet and guardian, and not a member of the family, as I now think about my current dogs.  I have learned my lesson and would mortage my home before I put another dog down for financial reasons.  Some have not learned that lesson yet, and some will never think like that. 

PSP:  I guess some (me for one), just never get the urge for a Mercedes or anything else that cost way too much, just for it's name.  My Ford is just fine, as is my untitled dog.  I don't need a Cadillac nor a SCH III, IPO, KKL1, etc, etc.  I am happy with my Ford and my girl.  To each his own.  IF I breed my dogs, I will not be trying nor under any ellusion, that I can produce the next VA1, or anything close.  What I will be trying to do is provide a decent pup for a decent price and do my very best to see it gets a decent home.  It may turn out to be a young couple like I was 30 years ago and they might make mistakes towards the dog, but there are no guarantees in life.  The GSD is such a fine thing to won, that it would be more of a shame to only let the "haves" experience them.

I am reminded of a line from the song "Mr. Bo Jangles".    About a traveling dancing man who didn't have two nickles to rub together and would dance in bars for drinks and tips.

"He spoke in tears, of fifteen years,

how his dog and him, traveled about.

The dog up and died, just up and died,

And after twenty years, he still grieves.

I just want a good healthy dog, nice size (about 26 inches tall, 80 lbs). Trainable, will protect me, and can play fetch. Would like protection training but thats optional. Why should I pay $1,200 for that? I can see $800, but 1.200? I think i should be able to get a long coat from a show breeder , or a low drive dog from a workingling breeder for that price. I wish I was able to get the pup from darylehret but not set up for the next dog yet.

I don't have a problem breeding untitled females, but IMO males should ALWAYS be titled.  If your male isn't titled go find one that is.  To preserve the working ability and GSD temperament  as much as possible without titling every breeding dog I think it is necessary (at a minimum) to keep the titles as close as possible in a pedigree.  Stud fees for titled males are not that high, someone wishing to breed an untitled  female can absolutely keep their puppy prices reasonable (within $500-$800) and still provide a "quality" animal to a pet home with the potential to do some work if the owner wishes.

What really gets my goat is these people who charge $1000-$1500 for pups who doesn't have one parent that is titled.  THIS is a ripoff!  No, value is NOT what the market can bear its how much time, money and training is invested in the parents, if you didn't invest this time, $, and training you have no business charging that much for a pup.  IMO the public pays this and the pups get sold because the general public have no clue how to determine quality and just assume high price = high quality.  

If you are going to breed untitled dogs CHARGE WHAT THEY ARE WORTH!!!!  Case in point: there is one breeder in my area who is getting $600-$900 for ACA puppies from untilted and NON-OFA'd parents.  I CANNOT BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE PAYING THIS MUCH FOR  THIS CRAP!  It is very disheartening, people really have no clue, they are getting taken advantage of!

if you want a pet then then some breeders will have good quality pups they will sell for 500 - 600 with no breeding rights.  but if you want pet you do not need full registration anyway..  all you have to do is ask...

GSDFan:  I don't have a problem with looking for titled males for untitled females, however, those willing to let their titled male mate with your untitled female are few and none.  I also believe that "anything is worth what you can get for it".  No more, no less.  Talk about a rip off.  Buy a glass of wine in a fancy restaurant for 600 dollars a glass, or a certain brand name purse for 6000 dollars, or a certain weaved basket for 800 dollars, etc, etc.  Let people pay what they want.  Sometimes they don't care about the quality.  They just want to be able to say "I paid 6 grand for him", to impress their friends.  Sort of like buying a diamond ring, or paying 40,000 for a wedding.  Stupid.  But let them.  It's their money.

DS:  500-600 is too much for a pet, in my opinion.  A quality GSD in the 200-300 range is about right, IMO.  This is coming from one who has purchased three imports for 2000 each.  That was dumb.  Love my dogs but I would love a 300 dollar dog just as much.  I can't breed one of my females because of bad OFA results, so a $200.00 dog would be just as good at this point, for a pet.  I could have bought a pup from the "guy down the street for $150.00 and ended up with a female that I should not breed".

If you want to sell me a 2000 dollar dog, then guarantee that he/she will be HD and ED and epilepsy problem free, for three years.  Otherwise, charge me 600, since it is a crap shoot and not guaranteed even close to that.  The buyer is always the one gambling and taking the chance.  The seller never is.  He/she gets theirs up front.  The buyer finds out two years down the road, that the dog he is now attached too, is not what he wanted and paid for (in his/her mind).