Sables in German Show Lines ??? - Page 1

I just saw the most gorgeously (!)  pigmented, red/black sable.   A lot of black and the deepest red color you can imagine.  Half show/half Czech.

 I wonder if it's possible to get this kind of color in modern German show lines without breeding into Czech or DDR lines???????

My first German Shepherd, many many years ago, was a red sable, and perhaps that's why I've always been partial to sables.  But they are virtually absent from West German Show Lines.   I've seen some sables out of Timo, but was disappointed in the pigment.   I would enjoy owning a  deeply pigmented sable with high V conformation.  If anyone knows about one, please post a link.

Thank you Blitzen, for the compliment!

Sable "show" lines are getting very scarce indeed. Even Margit van Dorssen (www.arlett.de) does not seem to have many anymore. And that is a shame. For the sake of diversity, they should be preserved. We have a tiny breeding program and will never make a difference, since we only have two to three females. I am also an advocate of starting to (carefully) mix lines. For anybody who is now outraged: Please take a look at VA-Timo vom Berrekasten!! Where do you think he comes from? Also, there have been more and more information that big name kennels in Germany have experimented with that as well, on both sides! I just have not heard anything on the outcome. My guess is that we won't for a while, since it takes a few generations.

You are more than welcome to contact me with specific requests as to what you are looking for.  There are currently no sable stud dogs in Germany with the exception of Margman Torsten, maybe (if he is still in Germany). I can give you contact information on him if you send me a mail. Our longtime friend Gerd Dexel has the great female Diva vom Lippesteg and co-owns our Gina vom Silbersee with us. You can contact him for a puppy. We have two sable females in our kennel: V-Vila vom Haus Dexel, SchH3 and V-Winni vom Silbersee, SchH2 - both are Timo-daughters. You are right: Timo did not really produce the dark red pigment. That was well-known and published in breed advisaries. But I can tell you for sure that his daughters did. Maybe not in every puppy, but you will get this too. Dog 1 owns Vila's sister Vella vom Haus Dexel, who is also sable. I think he also owns a sable Champ Dakota-daughter. Currently, I have a very promising 7 week old sable male puppy at home out of my latest litter and I would love to sell him into a show and working home. Parents are VA-Nando vom Gollerweiher and V-Vila vom Haus Dexel (also mother of our Gina vom Silbersee, who is currently one of the most successful sable dogs in Germany). Dog 1 and I are both in the greater Washington DC metro area. Or, if you are a breeder, please take a look at my husband's dog V-Ronaldo von Arlett, SchH3 as a potential stud dog. He is a dark red sable dog and represents the beautiful type of his father. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/343309.html

Chris Stump 

It is too bad that sables are rare in German showlines. I have a great sable Timo daughter (Akenja v. Illiansheim, is in the database) with had a superb litter with Bijou v. Freese Land (Yak v. Frankengold) with 5 sables and 4 black/tan pups. They are 12 weeks old yet (one sable male is still for sale) and I am very curiuos who they look when the are 2 years off age! You can see the pups on my website: www.illiansheim.nl

I am trying to breed  showline sables because I'm in love with the colour!

Chris,

It is not entirely true that there are NO sable stud males in Germany. There is also V Baldur von der Fichtenspitze, SchH3 (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/371905.html), who is ALSO a VA Timo son! He has produced some very nice dogs as well.

Also way to go with the sables in the showlines! I wish we saw more. I would love to have one eventually.  :)

-Melanie

Baldur is a nice looking dog, but he represents one of the problems I've discovered when "sable shopping"....  one must either make compromises somewhere, or keep looking.  In the case of Baldur it would be a significant compromise for me:  he has a ZW number of 106.  He has fast-normal hips, his mother nz.  He has two x-rayed progeny, one nz and the other fn.    A little too risky I think....

 Jan

I found Racker Itztal in Timo's pedigree, which was interesting, but since he's in the 6th generation, I think it is not very significant.

 I think mixing a little "work" bloodlines into the showlines would be a good ide (though I think it would be hard to find buyers for first generation crosses, and probably beyond that too.    But after recently counting  well over 50 occurrences of Palme in the pedigree of a top V dog, who was the sire of a young female I became interested in, I think the idea should be promoted!    True, Palme could only be found  beyond the 6th generation, but still I find it troubling to see so much concentration on a single dog. 

 I would be very very interested to talk with someone who is mixing bloodlines.............. 

Jan 

Me again....

Here's a link to a sable male that I think has really nice rich color and he's quite a nice looking dog too.  He has a working dog pedigree; parents and grandparents are all KK1.  

 http://www.schaeferhunde-sportinfo.de/Deckrueden/Metin_vom_Stadtfeld.htm.

Also found him on Wayne Curry's website (Washingon), listed as "not available"................

He was bred to quite a bit; last litter born 9/2006.  But, not surprisingly, I didn't find any bitches from highlines brought to him................... 

I have used Metin once on a showline female (offspring is in the database see Dinara v. Winnloh), the pups are very different from each other (but that the problem with this type off crossbreeding). Too bad with none off the pups will be bred. But these types off breeding are very interesting to do.

In German Metin has some very good offspring: Benny v. Haus Pe-Ja.

In German are more breeders who bred with sable: v. Friedenspark (look at Thor v. Friedenspark), v. Bastille (use Arlett lines), v. Ducati. But they are hard to find...