Inappropriate Agression , but is this a fear biter? - Page 9

well hundmutter that is the point, avoiding that stage, the dog in this vid came from german SWAT where they had serious problems with him, came in a muzzle to me attacking everything and everybody, would have been euthanized if I didnot take him.

but like a said before, the macho approaches draw larger crowds

 

 

Jesse
You asked my take in that second video ..

My Mentor taught me , the main feature of the dog , as other threads were geared on , is the genetics , the Temperament of the dog. Given the learning/environment also has input. In addition , he hammered the point : if you do not understand the dog and from where the behavior originates , how the hell are you going to help this dog and solve the problem .

So , Jesse this is what I see from this video , a dog with inappropriate aggression. Faulty aggression , which contributes to the dog's mentality. IMOP , poor / bad genetics !! Now what seems to back this thought up : The dog is not trained , it is managed. Not 1 line by one person , but two lines with 2 people , yes ? And with that we see the quality and quantity of the dog's aggression . Seems atrocious and abusive that the dog is being treated this way ... And .. it is.. However , think what this dog would do if he were on but 1 line , one handler ? I think both of those men clearly know the answer and that is why there are two lines.
I believe neither of these men could handle/ control this dog and the most certainly it is very difficult for this dog to control himself. Their solution : e collar. but I don't think they fully understand. To reiterate this is a 'Genetic' problem and we know that can never be changed. You will never change this dog for what it is. This dog can , if it can , be only managed. This is a dangerous dog and if were free in that video you would perhaps see. The e collar and two lines seems to,  in the video , have gotten him in control , but he is not.. he is simply complying. The e collar does not change the dog and you can't count on this dog to be reliable without that kind of control. E collars are not the solution for tis type of dog. But I don't think the two men have any other way to handle this dog , have no other ideas what they could possibly do with this dog. This dog is not good for pet , LE , PP , Sport.
So IMOp abuse comes from ignorance. I was lost for words not just what was done to the dog . I am lost for words because these men do have some experience but I think they mis the boat and are lacking [ to be courteous]  ....
So , Jesse , for right or wrong , this is how I see that video.

PS -- Jesse , then again we see so many child abuse cases from parents that have no clue too ..do se not ?  What can we say ....

Duke: Thanks. So I'm guessing the dog in your vid arrived looking much like the dog of Glock's first video as to body language ? [Compared / different to the dog in his 2nd]

Did you start working with him - and sedative - just as soon as the SWAT team dropped him off with you?

dog attacked in muzzle without backing off like dog in first video, brought in afternoon, they put him in the kennel, didnot feed in evening and gave him small slice of meat with sedalin next morning and took him out couple hours later, he had some attemts to bite me when taking out, video is not more than 20 minutes after I took him out first time next mornig

 

but I have these dogs regularly where I have owner put him in box of my car, drive home, give sedalin before taking them out, works like a dream, 

during the time sedalin kicks in a go to them multiple times, talking to them in a calm tone of voice for them to recognize me already, allways confront them sideways, never face forward and let them come to me to muzzle instead of going to them to muzzle

basic rules

Centurian-
Thanks for your take on the second vid.

I was actually asking about the first vid with the French trainer. I thought it was showing thoughtfulness on part of the trainer in dealing with a dog showing aggression issues, that he is likely being asked to diagnose and to try to de-program what (might) be a sound dog.

Anyway, I’ll go ahead and tack onto to your thoughts on the second vid...and thanks for you thoughts as they are always spot on and I enjoy reading them.

I understand the use of two lines in the second vid. I just seems that using both lines attached to a collar, possible choke chains (although that is speculation, I can’t really tell except for seeing some chain showing), and the remote....is only helping in driving the dog more into a more frantic mode without offering an out for the dog. 

Then following up with the use of the writhing screaming decoy, using a muzzle and no equipment/sleeve, just seems so overly premature with this dog (not only premature, but should probably not be done at all)...and is like pouring gas on an opened flame. This is not calming the dogs mind or having him focus with control. Meanwhile the dogs brain is allowed to continue in a high overheated gear that will burn what is left of this dog’s psyche out even more.

So basically, I guess I wonder what the goal is of this training session in the 2. Vid.

Duke-
Yes, it does make for more spectacular videos, in the end often only to advertise dog training businesses.

Very interesting that after one use of sedalin and your interaction with the dog - which I would call a training session too- they seem to accept you without aggression even when off sedalin the next time. Might be a good tool to use for these types of situations of overly aggressives, to move forward with more re-training or de-programming, if possible.
 

Centurion, I believe the treatment of the dog caused the dog to be aggressive...fighting for his life. One handler who has dog sense and not two idiots showing off to look brave, and the dog would probably have no reason to act aggressively.

My point using a horse I owned from three year old till his death at 28 years....I purchased him from a man who said the horse was a 'killer'...any one around horse traders long enough will run across a claim like that. I was looking for a paint horse and heard about this horse. Found out where he was and went the see him.

He was in a drylot by himself, with a run in stall. I went into the lot with him, clucked him into a trot to see if he was sound. He kept his distance, but didn't pin his ears or charge at me. Being as he was still a stud, I saw that as a good sign. I contacted the owners and made a deal to buy him. When I went to pick him up, the owners were shocked that I went into the lot with the stud horse and didn't get savaged. They told me the horse was not possible to break to ride because he was so dangerous.

Now this horse was absolutely beautiful had a gorgeous head....what could go wrong if I put some work into him?

OK, long story short...I wanted to have him castrated soon as I broke him to lead ...which the day I got him home, as I was bringing him into his 12x12 stall, he came after me on his hindlegs pawing at me. I got out from under him and out of the stall without getting clobbered. So at the end of a week once I had him leadbroke, the vet came to cut him.....after the initial tranquilizer shot, I reached to lift his mane out of the way and the horse lunged for my throat with his teeth bared and mouth wide open...I jumped back just as he slammed his mouth closed, missing me by a few inches. The veterinarian was so shaken, she said the horse needed to be euthanized because he was an 'outlaw !'

I said, naw, he'll be alright.

Welp, first time I put a saddle on him, he reared up and threw himself over backwards and scrubbed his back into the dirt, trying to 'kill' the saddle...that was repeated for two months, till he finnally gave up and moved out with out throwing himself over onto the saddle....three months later, I was riding him, he never bucked, nor reared and after a couple more months of training, I used him in my act with my Brahman bull, then after retiring the bull, he worked in my act with my Appaloosa.... 15 years we performed on the road together till we both retired...he performed flawlessly, always.

Far as i've experienced, dogs are easier to get around than a rogue horse...they're smaller, lol.

Understanding and outsmarting an animal rather than trying to overpower them, I've found gives good results.

 

This is ao true Joanro

"Understanding and outsmarting an animal rather than trying to overpower them, I've found gives good results"

Video #2
something is way off ...
Ok - there are times to use 2 lines... times to use one line and an e collar ... but look at this context all three ?...

2 lines , a muzzle , and an e collar... how much do we need to control a dog , to teach a dog ... something is drastically out of sorts . If a dog has a muzzle on , using more than 1 line ? nothing else to say .....

Torture comes to mind.

Great story and great pics Joanro.
How great to train a horse and a bull like that. Hats off to you!

Well..Cent...I was asking your take about the first video the op posted with Hervé Pupier. Not the 2nd one with the two guys doing overkill on the poor dog.
But that’s ok, never mind. I appreciated your answer anyway.