Shiloh Shepherds...Warlock/King Dobermans - Page 9

Be honest, drop "shepherd" from the name of these overgrown drooling lapdogs.  As far as the BS of getting a Shiloh because you can't handle a working line dog and don't want a show line- WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!  I can show you to many show line breeders whos dogs will work circles around your fluffy mutt - ANY DAY ANY TIME ANY WHERE.

So in closing, stop wasting our time, go beg Oli for your own message board here, maybe he will feel sorry for you.

Sue,

Yep, it's a crock!!     It's obvious that these poor misguided souls need attention. Otherwise, they would not keep coming to a GERMAN SHEPHERD board to tout their hairy mutts.   I don't even believe Alex for a moment.  There weren't "working lines" and "show lines" in the 50s.   That was decades before the split.

Read "Alex's" post again.  "Native German," my ass!!  An Army-brat, or something similar,  maybe.    Some American, or Canadian,  who happened to have been born in Germany...at a military base?     That would be 'native German." 

sunenic you may be right about todays shilohs ,but you are wrong about the shilohs of the past .before the mix came in they were very nice dogs pure germansherds.Nicely put together.As being from the east coast i have seen many old timers,I know nothing of what they have become today,keep an open mind for what they used to be.Anyone can ruin a good line over time.

All that has been asked of Tina is to present solid proof of her 'working' titled Shiloh Shepherds... Thats it, Very simple

  How Many  Titled Shilohs?  Names/Dates.......And how many Working titles?    SchH, IPO, PSA woud suit.   And Id be curious to know how many litters.  Honest Ed Frawley might still lead the pack..at 300

If I wanted to recreate the GSD, the Last breed I would use would be the Malamute.   I could almost understand using a Malinois, Rottweiler, Groendael, Tervuren, Beauceron,  Pitbull,  Dutch Shepherd......but a Malimute and/or Livestock guardian?   

I think we already know the answer but if Tina would be so kind in responding it might clear this up. Heaven knows its been asked for numberous times.    There are plenty of Good working dogs available, Thats what the GSD Should be, as it was founded.

I dont understand the re creation and divergence from the breed founders who were very clear about a WORKING DOG.' 'Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim."

Uglydog, to set the record straigh, the outcross we're talking about was Samson, and he was a German shepherd/Malamute CROSS, not a pure mal. The Shepherd side had some of the Littlest Hobo dogs in their bloodline.  The man who provided Samson had been breeding his own strain of giant malamutes, similar to the Chinook dogs, for quite some time, so it was not just a casual breeding.

And the reason 'we' keep coming back here is to correct the ridiculous misinformation being spouted about the Shiloh by people who have NEVER EVEN MET one of them, and don't know the first thing about the breed.

In the early days, Tina and her husband MADE THEIR LIVING training protection dogs for police and guard dog work. If you visit her web site, you will see many pictures of her early dogs being trained to bite on sleeves, etc. She also trained and titled her dogs in Schutzhund, under NASA.

When she split with the AKC, and went her own way, she changed direction. As I have said before, the current Shilohs are not used in protection or schutzhund, but they DO make excellent herding and tracking dogs. A number have worked in SAR, and I know of several that are excellent medical service dogs. One recently 'alerted' to her handler's co-worker. It turned out the lady was diabetic, and her blood sugar was crashing. Many are used as therapy dogs, and a friend of mine is working her two dogs in agility and obedience.

Ma is a busy lady. She runs a large kennel, whelps and socializes puppies, conducts litter evaluations for her own litters and those of her licensed breeders. She also has her own message forum, and works incredibly hard, usually at least 14 hours a day. She has been very sick with bronchitis over Christmas, and just doesn't have the time to keep up with this thread or forum. Nevertheless, I will e-mail her to poke her head in here, and give you the details.

Then I will ROTFLMAO as I watch you wipe the egg off your faces... 

 Pardon my ignorance but I'm trying to figure out the intricacies of genetics.  I used to naively think that the way to combat the problems plaguing the pure-bred dogs was to out-cross, as much as possible, as often as possible, as far as possible.  But I read an article that seemed to make sense that said (I forget the exact numbers) something like, if breed A has x percentage of recessive defects, and you breed to breed B that has y percentage of recessive defects (with presumably some overlap) then the offspring will potentially carry all the defective genes.  So instead of the defects canceling each other out, you may have added them together.  And you won't know which pups are carriers (sans DNA testing) since they are recessive.

Do I have that right?

So, speaking purely of health issues, big out-crosses (meaning, very different lines or even different breeds) would make things worse instead of better, is that correct?  I'm not trying to slam anyone or fuel any fires, I'm honestly trying to figure things out.

If you were starting from scratch to make a breed nowadays, would you do it by mixing breeds, or would you perhaps start from a primitive, pariah-type dog?  They are supposedly free of a lot of the pure-bred problems.  They are the result of scatter-breeding, except as limited by geography... and no single sire can dominate the entire species... and also, the dogs get to choose their own mates.  (Plus there's the very real application of survival of the fittest.)  What effect do you think the dogs' choosing their own mate has?  Do you think that, or just the pure scatter breeding, is the reason they have fewer genetic problems?  This intrigues me.  I hope it isn't too much off-topic.

(I also have been wondering about all those ____-poo mixed breeds.  Are they evidencing a higher rate of the defects of both parent breeds?)

Naja - dann will ich mal auf deutsch weiterschreiben. Vielleicht glaubt mir dann jemand, dass ich besser deutsch spreche als englisch. ;) Die Aggression dieses Forums laesst mich schaudern.

Uebrigens: Shepherd, bzw. Schaeferhund bedeutet nichts anderes als "HUETEHUND". Der Hund eines Schaefers, der beim hueten und zum Schutz der Schafe gezuechtet wurde. Was den Huetetrieb angeht: MEIN "Mutt" hat den. Wie sieht das bei euren sog. SCHAEFERhunden aus ? Die haben zuviel Beutetrieb und waeren wahrscheinlich eine Gefahr fuer jedes lebendige Schaf ! ! !

Have a nice life with your overbred mutants !

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. 

I too saw that this Alex person tried to spread more misinformation about there being a difference between show and working lines from the 50s.  Obviously this is another Tina groupee who gets misinformation from her fractured fairy tales.   You are so right Mystere, the only ones here spreading misinformation are the idiot Shiloh groupees.

SHILOH PEOPLE:  YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO LOVE YOUR DOGS BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY BUSINESS ON A GERMAN SHEPHERD MESSAGE BOARD.  NO ONE HERE IS BUYING. 

Sue, there's another very good reason why the Shiloh Shepherd name keeps cropping up here.

That's because some of the breeders who have broken with Tina are crossing their Shilohs with GSD's and calling them purebred Shioh Shepherds. Or, even worse, they are taking their long-haired GSD's, registered AS German Shepherds, with whatever registry you care to name, and calling THEM Shiloh Shepherds.

Now, THAT is something for the GSD folks to be concerned and angry about, just as the true Shioh breeders are angry with these folks!.

Don't be fooled. The Shiloh IS NOT a GSD. No true Shiloh born since 1990 has held AKC papers. Unfortunately, because the breed is still under development,  it's hard to stop this from happening, though Tina is trying her best.

In spite of all her efforts, I just found the following post on Dogwise (DogDUMB?) this week:

"Akitas come in a ( non akc approved ) coat affectionately called " fluffies" they look like this... http://flickr.com/photos/boushh/2608942601/ 

German shepherds with this type coat are called shiloh shepherds...."

AAAARRGGGHHHHH!!  

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