Schäferhundverein RSV2000 e.V. is member of VDH (FCI) - Page 9

Gustav, it was pointed out to me in a PM that Germany certifies hips at 12 months.  (Thanks!)

You're right, I was thinking that 24 months was the minimum, so that did surprise me.  My dog is of German descent but since I live in the USA, an x-ray at 12 months is not considered good enough to talk about not being dysplastic.

Videx, you're a showline breeder right?  Politician too, it seems.  I think if you applied the same logic that you used to support the gsd/alsation split, you'd find an easier time understanding the necessity to get workinglines out from under the umbrella of the SV.

"It was then I realised that if they couldn’t appreciate this dog then there is no Common Ground left where both sides could meet in the middle, for if this dog couldn’t Unite the two, then nothing else was ever likely to come close and it is time for both sides to call it a day."~Videx

Crossbreeding makes every bit of sense, at the very least before alternatively resorting to working/show crosses, provided your priorities are properly aligned.  A conformation standard alone does not preserve utility, it's proven.  A pedigree isn't the same as a standard, so why should some showline *piece of work* be given some natural "birthright" to be called German Shepherd Dog, over a crossbreed that can actually meet the requirements?  What did Stephanitz think of "purebred" dogs?  Did he ever actually own any, that didn't have some other breed on the papers?  Where's all the advocates for "genetic diversity" now?

Ok. The RSV Breeding Regulations in very abbreviated form. Full translation is a work in progress.

Source: http://www.rsv2000.de/de/40/Zuchtordnung.html#6

Effective date January 10, 2009

Para. 2. (1) a. Basis for breeding a GSD as a utility dog is as established by the FCI Breed Standard No. 166. [This should answer your questions about conformation]
Para. 2 (2) Only pure bred GSDs may be used for breeding. Their ancestry has to be demonstrable over the past four generations via VDH and/or FCI breed books. [Anybody who still wants to talk about RSV2000 outcrossing with Malinois, crawl back under your various rocks]

Para. 6 Admissible for Breeding:
(1) All dogs and bitches have to be approved for breeding.
(2) The suitability evaluation (Talentsichtung) is a requirement.
(3) Must have a minimum rating of 'good' in conformation, judged by RSV2000 judge or VDH/FCI judge.
(4) Several levels of approval for breeding are required:
a. Suitability evaluation without exclusionary faults.
b. Has to pass performance evaluations (SchH, VPG, IPO, WPO or comparable trials)
c. Has to pass higher than regional trials
d. Has to pass a Koerung (breed survey)
(6) Normal, almost normal, still admissible ratings for HD and ED
(8) Minimum age for dogs is 13 months and for bitches, 15 months. [Thusly accepting 'test breedings' which are done routinely by USian breeders but shrugged off as 'Oh my gosh, I had an accidental breeding'.]
(10) Exclusionary defects:
a. Dogs listed in the Utility Dog Register (Gebrauchshunderegister)  [Mutts with something similar to an IPL number]
b. Dogs with the following faults:
- poor temperament, bitey dogs, dogs with weak nerves [IOW, if Videx were a dog he'd be excluded from the gene pool, rightly so]
- dogs with proven HD/ED
- monorchids or cryptorchids
- disfiguring ear or tail set
- disfugurements
- dentition faults (excepted are dogs who had dentition exams showing no faults and subsequently lost teeth)
- dogs with faulty pigmentation, blues
- long stock coat
- long coat
- malocclusion
- overbite
- underbite
- too tall or too short by 1 cm
- bitches who were delivered by C-section three times previously

Para 7
(1) HD/ED minimum age for X-rays is 12 months

Para. 8
(1) Close line breeding of 2 - 3 is discouraged [I have such a dog and I very much appreciate the suggested limitation]
(2) 2 - 2 is not allowed

Para. 11
A/I allowed if the bitch has had one naturally conceived litter and if the male has had one natural and successful mating.


This is by no means a binding translation and is for preliminary information only. Elsewhere in the Rules and Regs it'll tell you that after this initial breeding at 12months/15 months the dogs have to pass SchH or equivalent trials, get a conformation rating, be breed surveyed, and a certain percentage of their progeny have to be entered in a progeny evaluation before the dog/bitch is cleared for future breedings.

This would put a huge crimp in some breeders' business and annual income. The sheer fact that so many highly respected German breeders have joined RSV2000 and are in agreement with these very tight rules tells me that yes indeed, they are working FOR the German Shepherd dog, not for the money or the glory.

You're welcome.

FCI-Standard N° 166 / 07. 08. 1996

BRIEF HISTORICAL SUMMARY : According to official resolution, the Association for German Shepherd Dogs (Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde) with seat in Augsburg, as a member of the German Kennel Club (Verband für das Deutsche Hundewesen e.V., VDH) and as founding association of the breed, is responsible for the standard of the German Shepherd Dog.

Note:
The FCI adopt the SV breed standard, the RSV 2000 adopt the SV breed standard



READ THE GSD BREED STANDARD HERE
http://www.videxgsd.com/FCI_GSD_Standard.htm

darylehret: writes above: "Crossbreeding makes every bit of sense, at the very least before alternatively resorting to working/show crosses, provided your priorities are properly aligned.  A conformation standard alone does not preserve utility, it's proven.  A pedigree isn't the same as a standard, so why should some showline *piece of work* be given some natural "birthright" to be called German Shepherd Dog, over a crossbreed that can actually meet the requirements?  What did Stephanitz think of "purebred" dogs?  Did he ever actually own any, that didn't have some other breed on the papers?  Where's all the advocates for "genetic diversity" now?"

COMMENTS PLEASE

especially from Aqua

Aqua: quotes from RSV 2000 (above)

Para. 6 Admissible for Breeding:

(8) Minimum age for dogs is 13 months and for bitches,15 months.

COMMENTS PLEASE

In all of this thread I have not seen one comment regarding one important difference between the working and showline dogs.  That factor is the human factor.   Whichever side you prefer it is necessary to  maintain the working, fit for purpose development in the dogs.  As anyone knows who has ever trained a dog to do more than run around in a circle it takes time, patience and knowhow.  Training for working dogs needs experience which only comes with time.  I think that only a few people on the show side have the required qualities to take their show dogs the extra mile and produce a finished product.  Many cannot afford to have someone else undertake this for them.  Not necessarily all absolute top working dogs will be obtained but certainly they should achieve a certain standard of ability.  Many show people do not have the time, even if they have the knowhow, to do more than are doing mainly because they have too many dogs.  Also, many have no inclination to try to train and this is probably one of the most important factors for the decline in maintaining the standards for workability and fit for purpose in our breed.   With the proper dedication and the qualities and desire to succeed in developing our dogs then SchH 1 should be easy to achieve.  More importantly it demonstrates that our dogs have learning ability and, therefore, with time the quality of our dogs, whether showline,  or working will improve as indeed will our reputations.

We should all give this new Club a fair chance to develop.  It is going to make some mistakes along the way that is normal and we should not be too vitriolic in our critisms.  We must use every tool that we have to unite and keep the German Shepherd dog in the forefront.

Kind regards

Mackenzie

Mackensie, I agree we should give them time, you left one out....MANY people should not own a German Shepherd because they have the issues you have articulated and therefore want to change the breed to compensate for these human failings. And many of them post the most and the loudest, and are NOT interested in doing with the dog what will maintain the dog in its rightful place in working dog history.