Another epidosde with Pit Bull - Page 8

Abhay: The first link on ELI says, STOLEN and never seen again!  I am shocked. How can this be, this is the foundation?

Michele, I hardly ever leave a link dark. I tried to edit my post and correct it, but it kept telling me the thread no longer existed. Thank You, for doing it.  I appreciate it.

Beetree, The ELI Bloodline, is one of the most popular in the APBT breed.  It's true that ELI was stolen, but he had already sired strong offspring by that time.  Another Great dog that was stolen and never seen again, was Gr Ch ART.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=6

Michele-you are awesome for doing that for Abhay..and i learned something as well.

Jenni- BUT- that is QIRA! Not Caleb! He anc Caleb can't be anywhere near each other. He and Qira are best buds and have been since puppyhood. He and Caleb would be a hideous fight I'd never want to see. They were fine until Simon was too old for Caleb to correct like a puppy, then I separated them.

Are you kidding me!!! Wow didn't really look to see it was a female!! Now I like her even more.She is a nice solid female.On your web site there is just a head shot on her page at first i had to do a double take and then look at the name and read that it was a female. She is super nice!! And as I said before I am picky about black GSDs after the one i had....he was awesome.

Oh and don't worry I'll take care of the neighbors.

Dodie: "We had her socialized from 6 weeks of age and on."

Your breeder let your dog go at six weeks?!

kCzaja

  Yes.  The puppies were very large.. When we took her home she weighed 11 pounds.  The mom stopped nursing because they were so big.     She did very well.   I know the norm is 8 weeks.  But, t hey were big enough.  We took her right to the vet and received a clean bill of health. 

Jenni that dog is fantastic! LOVE the photo of him running towards the camera! 

This is my friend's AKC CH ABPT, Savvy. He's too lazy for SchH, though. Just a pretty face! He is also the dog whose DNA came back border collie, which is why I take a dim view of these DNA sites. Do they just rely on COLOR?
http://chako.org/sphotos.html

It's funny that most people assume that dogs with cropped ears are fighting dogs. Like Abhay said, most dog fighters don't crop the ears.
I have probably rescued more fighting dogs in my 20 years with the breed than most people will ever see. I have owned dogs from every one of  the pedigrees that Abhay listed. And guess what? They had better temperaments towards people than the new "bully breeds" that are out there attacking people.
That being said,  I must respectfully disagree with the people on here who are assuming that  most of these attacks on people are mixes. I'm pretty sure that a damn good number of  them are purebred. I'm sure some are mixes, but not most...Here in Vegas, every other dog walking down the street is a pit bull. Here is my reason for thinking this way:

First let me say, don't get me wrong by assuming I am defending dogfighting, because I am not. I have never fought a dog in my life and never would, as much as I love the breed, and know what they were bred for,  the thought still makes me sick to my stomach... BUT in what I have seen,  the problem is, that too many people started getting access to these dogs when the oldtimers got caught fighting or "retired" when it became illegal, and breeding only for say, unusual colors and/or over-sized structure (sound familiar???) with no temperament testing. The dogs no longer had a "job" or an outlet for their aggression.
Now we have this breed that was bred for one thing for the last century or so- fighting, being bred for looks, and have not had undesirable traits bred out of them. So yes, I think there is an aggression problem with the breed today that didn't exist until it became "cool" to own a pit bull. Now everybody and anybody can get a pit bull. I bet for the amount of money I paid for one of my GSDs I could go out and buy 10 pit bulls without leaving Vegas.

The dogs that Abhay listed were (at that time) not just sold or given away to anyone who wanted one, like they are today. They were given to dogfighters who culled most of the manbiters and if one did happen to have a human aggressive dog, it sure a hell wasn't roaming the streets, breaking it's chain, or escaping it's kennel, etc... The dogs were too valuable for the owner's to be careless. Do you think Eli or Art would have been easily stolen were they manbiters?

Pit bulls can make wonderful family pets, with the right commitment. You don't have to be a gangbanger to own or raise them. My dogs made excellent hunting dogs (wild boars.) They had a job and never did ANY of my dogs ever turn on me or my children. Maybe if everyone plays nice I'll share some picture of my UGLY puppies with my UGLY kids LOL
I don't own any now,nor do I breed. I guess I just loved the breed to much to keep watching it go to shit before my eyes.
Too much dog fighting going on and way to many pit bulls in the shelters...
Stacy

Stacy,

I don't doubt that many of them are purebred, but I'd prefer to  refer to them as "shitbred." Nasty, manbiting father to nasty, manbiting grand daughter (I have heard some interesting "linebreeding" tales and theories from the "dogmen" of today- I use the term "dogmen" very loosely!), or pure for the last few generations but a few gens. back someone threw in a larger molosser for size, etc. I'm doing a dog study w/a scientist friend of mine, and we're studying many "types" of dogs and it's brought me in contact w/some interesting characters. The dogs who are actually still used for fighting are still managed better (ie, kept hidden, secured, and aren't running around the neighborhood biting people) than the poor counterparts owned by their wannabe neighbors who may participate in pathetic torture they call matching, but have no clue what they're doing, no rules, no ethics, and no soul. It is simply animal abuse. THESE seem to be the dogs and "people" that get the most publicity- more of a "squeaky wheel" situation than a truly accurate portrayal of the majority. 

My friend also has access to many dead bodies for study- the bully types you see are typically the ones owned by wannabes- the big ones w/the funny jaws and crooked legs who are out roaming and attacking. They are frequently discarded, turned over to AC when they get busted, or just left to die after they don't do too well in a fight.  The ones that are kept underground more closely resemble the old gamedogs in structure and temperament. Interestingly, he gets probably 25 bodies of the wannabe types for every 1 true fighting dog. He has a few of those owners who will turn a dog over to him if it dies (and often of natural causes!), but as a rule, they are not being picked up by AC nearly as often because they are not creating public problems, so he has very limited access. 

So, my point is what most people think of as a Pit Bull is not, IMO, really a Pit Bull at all. I don't even really consider them the same breed as the old gamedogs. How can you? They aren't being bred for any of the qualities that mattered; in fact, they're being bred for the opposite, so how can they really be called Pit Bulls? To me, it parallels (though exacerbated)  the growing rift between, say, an American show Shepherd and a properly bred working line GSD. Not to generalize, but it's the easiest way to make my point; how many of you want your proper GSDs to be thought of by the public majority as being the same breed as the hideous, crippled, nervy, aggressive American line GSD that lives down the street and bites everyone who turns their back on it? I bet not many. Why? Because if you study what a GSD was meant to be, it doesn't resemble it at all. They shouldn't be called GSDs, nor should the vast majority of these bully type dogs that people are calling Pit Bulls. 
 
I maintain that many of the attacks you hear about were not Pit Bulls at all, but only became Pit Bulls after the story was told a few times. And you must admit, the photos of some of these dogs are laughable.

Abhay, that pic is so small- it's been bothering me for months! The face is familiar but I can't say for sure. I hadn't seen that pic before. Give me a hint- a year, a dog, a friend of so-and-so....pretty please;-) I have been "out" of Pits for about 8 years. My ex was into them and I unfortunately lost all of my books and other paraphernalia when I left. Now I just have a sea of names bouncing around in my brain since I turned my obsession to GSDs. I miss it though, I must say. Wonder if I

Post got cut off:

Wonder if I can replace some of my collection on ebay. Hmmm.

Vom M- nice looking dog, even if he's just another pretty face;-)

Beetree, Simon isn't a huge fan of the cold either. I haven't had too many that were. I've had a few fosters who were big babies about it, and Simon isn't bad, but he doesn't want to stay out nearly as long as he does when it's warmer out.

Thanks for the compliments on Simon. Wannabes don't like him. He's too small and friendly, and he's not DA. Not to say I'd allow him to "play" w/any dog but Qira (and that is coming to an end as things are escalating lately as they mature), but he is just not what they're used to seeing- the giant beast, foaming at the mouth to get at another dog, dragging some guy down the street who can't walk any faster because his pants are falling down. He minds his own business unless some dog gives him the stink eye. He can also run (and run very quickly!) on his straight legs and breathe at the same time.