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by Scoutk9GSDs on 31 July 2009 - 13:07
I agree with Hans about work vs. show/sport.
However after having owned and worked and worked others dogs that were Malis,dutchies and GSDs and a couple other breeds I still know that for myself the Mal is the ultimate working dog. A properly bred Mal that is. A good one definitely has just as much defense and aggression as a good GSD. They may express that defense....or should I say the trigger for that reaction is a tiny bit different but it is there big time in a good Mali or Dutch. I do feel that they can be just as loyal although they wont seek out the close contact a GSD will. They will definitely be there for you. Dutchies are bit more bull headed IMO but they are great as well.
Two of the biggest problems I see in all three breeds today is a lack of grit and defense and poor health. I see it in all three breeds. I dont see many GSDs with the proper type of defense anymore and it gets less and less. Soceity doesnt think it is neccessary and the dog world is relying more and more on prey drive for all types of training. Therefore dogs will be bred to perform the best in the manner of training. The type of training in this case drives the breeding to some extent.
I wonder if the masters of working dogs 80 to 100 years ago spent countless hours arguing over prey drive and defense drive?
Its rediculous IMO.
However after having owned and worked and worked others dogs that were Malis,dutchies and GSDs and a couple other breeds I still know that for myself the Mal is the ultimate working dog. A properly bred Mal that is. A good one definitely has just as much defense and aggression as a good GSD. They may express that defense....or should I say the trigger for that reaction is a tiny bit different but it is there big time in a good Mali or Dutch. I do feel that they can be just as loyal although they wont seek out the close contact a GSD will. They will definitely be there for you. Dutchies are bit more bull headed IMO but they are great as well.
Two of the biggest problems I see in all three breeds today is a lack of grit and defense and poor health. I see it in all three breeds. I dont see many GSDs with the proper type of defense anymore and it gets less and less. Soceity doesnt think it is neccessary and the dog world is relying more and more on prey drive for all types of training. Therefore dogs will be bred to perform the best in the manner of training. The type of training in this case drives the breeding to some extent.
I wonder if the masters of working dogs 80 to 100 years ago spent countless hours arguing over prey drive and defense drive?
Its rediculous IMO.
by OGBS on 31 July 2009 - 16:07
Jim,
I agree with you.
"I" would take that GSD over the two Mals any day. He is a lot more menacing looking to me and I do think that equates to something on the street. Mals look more fragile to me (I am not saying they are because I know they aren't). The Mals "look" like you could break them over your knee, but, the GSD looks like he would break you over his knee.
All in all, though, I think that all three are great breeds and may some day own a Dutchie.
Maybe we could start another thread about just the Dutchie vs. Malinois and why you would choose one over the other?
I agree with you.
"I" would take that GSD over the two Mals any day. He is a lot more menacing looking to me and I do think that equates to something on the street. Mals look more fragile to me (I am not saying they are because I know they aren't). The Mals "look" like you could break them over your knee, but, the GSD looks like he would break you over his knee.
All in all, though, I think that all three are great breeds and may some day own a Dutchie.
Maybe we could start another thread about just the Dutchie vs. Malinois and why you would choose one over the other?
by Prager on 31 July 2009 - 18:07
To Christopher.
My point exactly Malinois is a better sport dog. But I am talking about work.
To ScoutK9GSD
80 TO 100 YEARS AGO? You should see the discussions I have read in old magazines and books when GSD was getting developed!
Prager (Hans)
HTTP://www.AlpineK9.com
My point exactly Malinois is a better sport dog. But I am talking about work.
To ScoutK9GSD
80 TO 100 YEARS AGO? You should see the discussions I have read in old magazines and books when GSD was getting developed!
Prager (Hans)
HTTP://www.AlpineK9.com
by Christopher Smith on 01 August 2009 - 04:08
Those ARE working police dogs in the picture.
by Sam Spade on 01 August 2009 - 13:08
Chris
I believe Hans was pointing out that it was a "trial" which is sport, not real life policework. I think his point was that the Malinois won the "trial" , hence his belief that Malinois are better sport dogs.
Hans, forgive me if I am incorrect, but I thought that is what you meant.
I believe Hans was pointing out that it was a "trial" which is sport, not real life policework. I think his point was that the Malinois won the "trial" , hence his belief that Malinois are better sport dogs.
Hans, forgive me if I am incorrect, but I thought that is what you meant.
by Prager on 01 August 2009 - 16:08
by the Ol'Line Rebel on 01 August 2009 - 17:08
I love that this topic came up. I'm not an expert but just a Joe Schmoe who is interested; an interested outsider, if you will.
I think the growing presence of Belgian Malinois in LE and MIL work should be a warning siren for German Shepherd people.
Seems to me too many GS are too aggressive (you can't control that), have major health problems (allergies to dysplasia), too bulky thus clumsy, etc. And it seems to me that those who think everything in SV world is perfect can't see that and blame "backyard breeders" - as if the professional LEOs and MPs go to farmyards and suburban backyards for their dogs.
It's my fear that this is the death-knell for the GS.
The GS hardly does what it was bred for - herding - has been virtually displaced as THE service dog (created the blind-guide industry), and is again threatened in other areas. Something is wrong.
I think the growing presence of Belgian Malinois in LE and MIL work should be a warning siren for German Shepherd people.
Seems to me too many GS are too aggressive (you can't control that), have major health problems (allergies to dysplasia), too bulky thus clumsy, etc. And it seems to me that those who think everything in SV world is perfect can't see that and blame "backyard breeders" - as if the professional LEOs and MPs go to farmyards and suburban backyards for their dogs.
It's my fear that this is the death-knell for the GS.
The GS hardly does what it was bred for - herding - has been virtually displaced as THE service dog (created the blind-guide industry), and is again threatened in other areas. Something is wrong.
by Uglydog on 01 August 2009 - 20:08
The GSD needs another Steward of the Breed.
The current board should all be removed. Or a New dedicated Registry/club should be formed with 1 goal..Performance and performance breeding and Working standard.
Split the registries and begin anew. Ban all of those that defy rules set forth and go from there.
In a few years, you will leave the bogus group wallowing in their pitiful, self sanctimonius squabblling and petty BS, whose priorities are self dirven and centered.
Leave DVG, SchH USA, AKC to their own devices.
The breed and their owners will thank you for making the sacrifice.
The current board should all be removed. Or a New dedicated Registry/club should be formed with 1 goal..Performance and performance breeding and Working standard.
Split the registries and begin anew. Ban all of those that defy rules set forth and go from there.
In a few years, you will leave the bogus group wallowing in their pitiful, self sanctimonius squabblling and petty BS, whose priorities are self dirven and centered.
Leave DVG, SchH USA, AKC to their own devices.
The breed and their owners will thank you for making the sacrifice.
by Phil Behun on 01 August 2009 - 20:08
It's already been done, it's called RSV2000 and it's champion is Dr. Helmut Raiser.
by darylehret on 01 August 2009 - 21:08
My sentiments as well, Uglydog. I'd like to thank PatriotA, Jim, Christopher and others for providing the first decent thread I've read here in a while. Especially to Hans, for joining to share your thoughts. I want to ask you Hans; Are you finding it more difficult in recent times to find suitable breeding dogs from the Czech republic, the kind you feel the breed should represent?
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