WUSV dogs that fail............ - Page 7

"...if breeding dogs with a purpose (that) they should be healthy, strong and hard is a wrong from your point of view..."
ValK you know I have not said any such thing; please do not put words in my mouth.

I am talking, as was Gustav, about breeders waltzing off in directions to breed what THEY consider is a dog that suits THEM (for any reason) because there is mysteriously no other GSD being bred that is good enough for THEM (or you !), with absolutely no regard for the original 'blueprint' intended by Max or the Standard, but instead insisting on one or more exagerated traits - whether that is of conformation OR OF TEMPERAMENT.

perhaps i did exaggeration but nevertheless you continuously objecting against hardness in the dogs. pretty much seems for you hard/civil dogs and aggressive dogs is a synonyms. but german shepherd isn't labrador retriever after all, albeit all these participants of IPO and others, proudly promoted in here, in their temperament rather resemble labradors with erected ears than shepherds.

i have many times repeated, even among dogs, produced in East Germany where hardness in defense was a clearly expressed as desirable trait, really hard dogs wasn't common type. in present commercial breeding they are already extinct specie.

I think the Hagenmühle line of dogs are pretty civil, but then again, I never experienced the old DDR lines. All I have to compare to are the pet lines and sporty lines I've owned. I like Blanka vom Patscherkofel and Olex de Valsory.

Here is my take but there are others who are far more experienced than I.....I think that when one says they want "hard" dogs they need to understand the implication of that statement. As Gustav said, there will always be a small share of GSDs that qualify for the type of dog that Valk desires. Also, I do think some of these dogs should not be culled but kept for a particular kind of work. The truth is...the majority of Sport dogs probably would not be able to do real hardcore protection as it has become a game with a lot of prey drive. So, you don't want to lose that ability to bite for real in police/military/protection. However, what Valk and others need to understand is that this type of dog is a small percentage of our GSDs and that is ok. We certainly do not want hundreds and thousands of GSDs to be put to sleep because there are only a small percentage of homes with incredibly experienced handlers that can handle these dogs. If breeders bred for these type of dogs for the masses, it would be chaos. I would venture that even breeders with strong IPO dogs probably have a hard time placing the puppies. It is not "dumbing down the breed" because our breed was bred for the masses not a select few. I doubt the breed founder would choose our breed in a few select hands over our breed in many hands doing satisfactory work.

I stand by my comment that....It is our job as breeders to make sure the majority of our GSDs are balanced, stable, and moderate in drives. Our breed is meant to be versatile and that is ok. But, the majority of our dogs should fit this balanced profile to act as the foundation for our breed. Yes, we will have offshoots of people that breed specifically for service dogs or police dogs or herding dogs. Unlike others, I don't believe that is breeding to "someone's taste". I think it is capitalizing on certain traits that individuals possess to create dogs capable of performing the work required by mankind. I, honestly, can't see our breed founder having a problem with that as long as the majority of our dogs stay correct. We have a versatile breed and should be proud of the fact our breed can perform so admirably in so many different walks of life. One is not better than the other. All our dogs are valuable assets to our breed.

Smiley what you said is rather refer to unmotivated aggression trait paired with weak nerves and more qualify for category of sentry dog.
military or security likes this kind of dogs, to guard perimeters not destined for crossing by anyone but for patrol role they are useless.
perhaps for commercial breeders much easier to wipe out any signs of defense in dogs and replace it by extreme playfulness and affability to humans, than try to dig into depth to figure out of what is what. after all their heart lays where higher return on investment.

Agree whole heartedly with Smiley's post. What I think really dangerous in breeding dogs is that any individual thinks what they want is what the whole breed should BE and nothing outside that prescription. Matters not whether that is (directable) 'hardness', or a too curved lumbar spine.
When the attitude of any poster in coming on here is: 'this is the type of dog I want, so I should be able to get it but I can't because 'everybody' is breeding for something else', even when it is pointed out that there are enough permutations on the central theme for there ALWAYS to be the dog they want, if only they bother to look properly, then the basis of the breed as originally conceived is threatened.

An imaginary conversation between a working dog buyer & a GSD seller.

Buyer: I need a dog that should be able to save my life if required.

Seller: Ok, let me take a dip into our eternal pool of GSD versatility and bring out a dog, who is not as good as that, that & that breed, but will also be able to do many other things that you do not require from him.

Have a nice day guys...

Ok, another imaginary conversation:

I need a dog who should be able to do THIS work.

Ok, and?

And he should be healthy, free of genetic defects & disorders.

Fine, anything else?

He should be purebred.

Why? A cross between this & this is best suited for this job!

No, I want a purebred GSD.

GSD? But there are at least two breeds that can do the job better!

No, I want a Sable purebred GSD, who should be registered in my country's KC. He should be as per breed standard, especially his hocks should touch the ground when walking, his croup should meet the loin back like this. His topline should be curved like this. His ears should be like this and....

When you need a dog to do a work, you need a dog, or a goat, or a pig, who is BEST suited to do that work. Every other criteria you add dilutes the main ability of that animal.

Valk no disrespect to you but you keep referring to a particular type od GSD hard in defense, civil etc but not one single name or even bloodline have been provided.

Glock, he said he likes Greta.