are they for real?? - Page 7

Uglydog...They are "capable" of doing and have "achieved" both.


SchH titles dont mean anything anymore.
The tests are watered down. We all know it.  Midnight trials and Ive seen some Showline SchH3 dogs I wouldnt feed.

If youre raising K9 patrol dogs youre selling to Police Departments, Ill eat my words.
We both know thats not the case.

Breeding for Show and Sport, is the ruin of the breed.

Uglydog,

Are you really as " ignorant" as you portray?......I have to think that would be IMPOSSIBLE.
I don't "breed & raise K9 patrol dogs......We have sold 3 dogs to recruiters for the K9 units for Indiana & Wisconsin.
THEY are active in their units......period.
Your simplistic ideals about anyones's dog other than your own.....is frankly...."laughable".....tragic...but laughable.

As for your earlier post......I too am hooked on phonics!...... I too have Max's book.
I wish you and your "real" dogs, the best of luck in the Schutzhund Nationals...........oh wait...titles don't mean anything?....
Luckily for my dogs......I can afford to feed them.

Best to you.

LOL..here in Chicago police dogs jump fences and run away during thunderstorms...not much of a test either!

Hey now!
Don't you "work" for a "training facility" that sell & trains dogs for K9 units????
I too am laughing!.....you kill me sometimes!

Robin, I commend you for the examples of your dogs that are involved in what you named...and if what you have detailed is the "norm" and not the exception for these type dogs than I am way off base and need to take a second look at these dogs. But if these show type dogs comprise 65% of the German Shepherds and yet the 30% workinglines are doing 90% of the work in the real world, have can you substantiate the "capability and achievements " of these dog as working dogs. I will repeat again, if it takes exceptions to the norm to make a point, then what does the majority which are not exceptions represent?? The reality is most working venues don't care about color, type, or show/working if the dogs will do the job. I still am curious why these working venues do not seek out these dogs routinely like they do the type of dogs you usually see today in work venues. Something does not equate!  I'm not trying to be contentious and I don't dislike conformation dogs(if they work also, for which they were created), but until people acknowledge that the formula for today's showlines has produced an inferior working dog(and that's all venues), then the showlines will never get back to be excellent in both aspects as the breed was meant to be.

I sure do, Robin- and if the Chicago PD came to us for K9s I bet it wouldn't happened!

Gustav, where do you get your 90% figure from? I know at work we use lots of west german dogs for K9. I know an Ando son, a Zamp son, an Erasmus son, a Campino son...I could go on and on. They judge the dog based on individual potential, not lines.

quick edit: One of the main reasons "todays forumla for showline dogs" is producing inferior workers is because the majority of the showlines do not receive a fraction of the training the working line dogs get.  This of course results in the dilution of genetic working ability but don't discount how many showlines with enormous potential will never reach it!  It is still the fault of the breeders- more so than the dogs themselves.

Gustav,

I without question, agree.
The "norm" is not so, ...it can be, it should be..but it is not.
People as a whole, have done the destruction to this breed, "breeders, judges, owners, clubs"....everyone.

What are your thoughts? What do you personally think should and can be done?

I am interested in your ideals...........
Robin

We have sold 3 dogs to recruiters for the K9 units for Indiana & Wisconsin.
THEY are active in their units......period


Are the dogs 'working' the streets or not?  Did they make the cut or not?
Recuiters, schmooters..
Single purpose drug dogs that never will get a bite in their lives?....

Working Line Bred dogs dont place in the Show circuit,  and Showline dogs dont place in the Bundessieger or do the dirty work on the Street, where it counts. 

One lacks Extreme Angulation, the other- the Drives, ability and agility to perform the work.

Either youre intellectionally dishonest or a moron. Which is it?
We know you cant have it both ways with the GSD today in this money driven, sell out, enviroment..

Now if you have Both Types of dogs and you are using them both in this argument,  that is different but again dishonest.
You mentioned your husband prefers one type, and you another...so be honest. Or post some pics




 

KCzaja, Where do I get my figures from.....from the countless dogs that are currently working the streets throughout the country in these venues. I train and procure dogs for police depts., I am a member of the USPCA, and go to the regional and National trials. I go to regionlas and nationals in sport, I talk to people in Herding, I train with people in SAR. I don't go off the internet, I SEE what is out there. There are very very very few showline dogs out there doing real work. There are thousands and thousands of dogs in SAR, Police, Herding, Military, etc. It is so infrequent that I see a showline dog anymore that I am curious as to breeding. But more importantly I am with the trainers and procurers of dogs for these vocations and I KNOW what they have found out. They KNOW which dogs work out consistently and none of them that I know are looking to recruit these dogs. Nonetheless let's leave it like you believe, it doesn't make a difference because one of us is in reality and the other has wishful thinking. If you are right about the lack of training and sufficient numbers out there doing work, then myself and everybody else that tries to tell showline people something is wrong with the working capabilities is missing something. The irony is that all of the "TOP" sport and military,police, and SAR, trainers are also missing the boat on knowing the capabilities of these dogs like you do. It can't be both ways and my wishful thinking must always be supported by actuality.

Robin, You have excellent reputation for producing dogs that are sound and can work, I am on my way to training today but tonight I will pm you with some thoughts on how to right the ship.

Ok Uglydog........it seems that I must speak slower and clearer for you.

".....we have sold (3) dogs to the "recruiters".....they are active dogs......meaning....they are with K9 handlers and "working".....
patrol, streets., prison..(single purpose)...I really don't know.....wherever the dogs were placed.  The info we received back was informing us that the dogs passed their "basic" training, and were now the property of the K9 units, placed with their "new" K9 Officer handlers. Then...a word of thanks."
Thats it!......nothing more....nothing less.

Oh wait.....you asked more...didn't you?
"......my husband likes one type, and I another......TYPE.....TYPE.....again, I'll go slow.......I like this dog better.....he likes the sister.....I like the father better.....he likes the son......TYPE.....TYPE".

I know this is hard for you.....but try to keep up..........
I own and breed.(ruin), compete.......1 type of dog.....THE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG.

As for being "intellectually dishonest or a moron".......let me again...speak slowly.
I am honestly, intellectual enough to recognize a MORON......so you get NO ARGUMENT from me.

Have a great day,
p.s Gustav.....I look forward to hearing from you.